In saying a week of compassionate leave for losing a parent is unfair?

[Helenwiththebigmelons]

Yes yes, life is unfair - but really, a week away from work because a parent has died? Is that all that can be granted?

I work for a logistics company as a Financial Admin, and I was told today by a colleague that this is all you get granted whilst on the topic of compassionate leave etc.

Isn't this shocking? In my last work place, my boss insisted on another colleague taking 3 weeks of fully paid leave to come to terms with things - he didn't even mention funeral arrangements.

What is your workplace policy like for compassionate leave? Perhaps I'm oblivious to some harsh realities.

I technically got a week off when my father died but my boss said to take what time I needed, in the end I took an extra 3 days and worked from my mum's house another 2. I was on an overseas training course for 2 weeks between his death and the funeral so out of the office a month although I'd actually worked 2/3 of that - when I got back I think people pretty much expected me to be 'over it' - I'm not.

It takes at least 18 months to get over a death of someone you are very close to.

When I worked in the NHS ( in a non clinical role ) , we got 1 day for a relative to attend the funeral but it was common for manager to push you to come in for half the day. For example, when I attended my grandfathers funeral at 12 noon, a 1.5 hours drive from work, my manager insisted I came into work until 10:30am .

Of course I arrived so late , there was no parking anywhere nearby , I had to park quite a distance away and the church was so full I had to stand at the back [ sad] .

We got three days for next of kin, but it had to be child, spouse or parent. When my teenage step son died ( who lived with us full time ) I was told I could only get one day, because I wasn't his parent. When I queried this I was told you had to be named on the birth certificate or have parental rights, step parent didn't count.

If your spouse died, you could get up to five days but only if you were organising the funeral . So if, say, your adult sons or daughter was organising it, you only got three days . Including the day for the funeral .

Who knows what they did if your partner died . I have no idea how they got you to prove your legal relationship .

I can't imagine how this worked in practice . Imagine you get a phone call at work to say your partner has died at work . So you go to her line manager to say you are leaving to go to the hospital and he replies

" have you got a document to prove that you are actually cohabiting ? Because the bereavement leave only applied to relatives , otherwise you have to apply for annual leave . Please submit your form in the usual way "

I don't think as a nation we can afford the 1 - 2 years that it takes most people to "be over" a death. That's the problem. As ever it's about money. It's nto that people aren't kind. Just that the day or two (or week for someone close) is about the most employers can afford and those of us who are self employed don't get a sausage as ever.

I had a week off when my father died. My then boss moaned like mad about it then proceeded to dock me a day's salary for the day of his funeral. He was a heartless twat. I left 3 months later and told him why

I had just moved halfway across the country to start a new job three weeks before my mum died very unexpectedly. I got one week compassionate leave, one week special leave (both paid) and I was then signed off for a week (unpaid because you don't get sick leave for the first three months of employment at my company). I had to go back because I needed to pay my rent but I was in no fit state, really. My mental health was severely impacted, but to be fair to my employers, they were very good about letting me have paid time off for bereavement counselling. They also let me take compassionate leave for three days for her inquest, two years later.

When my brother died a year after that, I had six days paid compassionate leave, including two days for his funeral a couple of weeks after he died. When I went into the office, my boss tried to send me home because she thought it was too soon, but actually being at work helped. If I'd needed longer, I think that would have been fine. My DP was also given two days paid compassionate leave to go home with me when my brother was rushed into hospital and died, and then two more days for the funeral (different company but equally generous).

Statements like 'it takes 18 months to get over a death' annoy me. I will never get over my son's death, but as I have family to support, I can't give up working forever. Returning to work doesn't meant you are 'over it'. Grief can be a life long process, with good days and bad days. It belittles bereavement to decide on arbitrary time limits.

Cleaty, whilst I know you were supporting the fact that bereavement is a long, slow process and therefore the 'one week' rule feels wrong, got to say I agree with the poster below. Many deaths you don't ever 'get over', you just - hopefully, after a time - learn to live with it. Certainly the case for the death of a child (that you don't get over it).

That said, I very much hope that I do 'get over' the death of my husband, which was mixed up with betrayal and cruelty. In fact, I hope it's long before 18 months! And I very much hope it doesn't adversely affect my children but only time will tell. And lots of love.

Christ, I though you were going to say it was too long so unfair on colleagues!

Crikey - I work for myself now but in any of my previous roles in any job I wouldn't have minded a jot picking up a bit of extra work to allow a colleague to have time to mourn a loss.

Who gets arsey about helping colleagues out like that?!

It was 18 months at least before the sun started shining bright again for me after the death of my mum. Some days even now are still cloudy but I've healed a lot. You never "get over it", you adjust your life/emotions and keep walking forward.
The reality is (imho), you need at least a week to even sort out immediate arrangements such as even registering the death, plus funeral stuff. Made far worse if like me my mum lived hours away. The first few weeks are just a blur of phone calls, going to the bank, sorting bills, planning a funeral etc. The actual grief didn't even hit me really until that had happened.

A week sounds like a lifetime. Where I work you get two days, and I'm overseas. It's not even enough time to fly home.....we are expected to take annual leave.

The comments on here demonstrate that those who get two days can't believe some get a week ( or longer ) while those of us who get nothing can't believe some get two days.
There are massive variations depending on the field of work.

I work in the voluntary sector as mentioned up thread and it's been drummed into the workforce for years that we are lucky to have a job at all,when budgets were slashed changes were made to contracts. The thing about 'giving up' benefits (such as sick leave, compassionate leave) is that it's going to be very difficult to ever get them back, I can't ever see a time when the charity I work for is going to be able to afford them again.

Sorry, I meant that it takes a long time to begin to move on after a bereavement, if you ever do. Get over, was an insensitive term to use and inaccurate.

I think I had three days when my parents died. A week seems generous to me; more helpful would be time off when they are ill/dying.

A week is not long if you are organising the funeral.

I have no idea what our work policy is. When my grandmother had a stroke last year and we thought she had days left to live, my boss told me to take the week off and do whatever I needed to do. On day two she regained consciousness and she's still alive now. I thought taking any longer off would be taking the piss so I worked from home on the third day and then went back to the office.

Sorry cleaty I was a bit sharp, I think the 'get over' phrase was a bit of a trigger for me but I understand what you were trying to say. Yes it does take a long time and I think it is important people feel supported by their employer - you are much more likely to be able to go back to work if your employer and colleagues are understanding and kind.

It is so hard to put a time limit on grief and funeral organisation/other admin which comes with the death of a loved one.

A week is probably about right but at the same time is not long enough.

I've recently changed jobs and had to attend a course on taking leave, which included policies on bereavement. We get 5 days for the death of a "close blood relative" but one of the five must be the funeral. Having organised my grandmother's funeral a few years ago (I was very close to her and my mother just fell apart and could not cope with it), I know that it takes more than four days and that is without factoring in the shock of the grief - especially if the death is sudden. A lot of people at this training course also questioned the clause about blood relations, noting that would not technically include spouses. The hard-as-nails HR woman running the session just shrugged and admitted that no it didn't but most people would be retired by the time their spouse passes away and other situations can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis . Having just left a job where my manager insisted that I took three days to come to terms with my best friend's death, I'm starting to worry about the compassion levels here.

I've also found huge discrepancy between family expectations and employer's policies. My PIL's have not spoken to BiL and SiL for 18 months because SiL did not (could not) attend an uncle's funeral on DH's side of the family. I was lucky to have that day approved as annual leave but many workplaces will not consider a spouse's uncle as needing essential leave. Similarly, I had a row with my father when, during a busy period at work, I was only able to take a half- day in the morning for my own uncle's (his brother) funeral and had to go straight back to the office after the service. I was told I was disrespectful and I felt disrespectful but it is a hard situation to balance for employees and employers. I didn't attend an aunt's funeral at all, although I did grieve for her, as she died the week after my best friend and I felt I could not take any more time away from work at that point.

What really concerns me is that my parents moved/retired abroad and I am scared to death (no pun intended) about what will happen when one of them (ultimately both) dies. DF is over 15 years older than DM (85 and 69 respectively) so is likely to go first and as I've mentioned, DM does not come in emotional/sad situations. I will have to fly to them and because they are so far away, cannot come back to work in between the initial death and funeral, which could be up to a fortnight apart. I am unlikely to have sufficient annual leave to cover the time required and taking extended time unpaid would have serious consequences. I wouldn't be able to be signed off sick as would be abroad so could not visit my GP, plus it would eb obvious to work that I wasn't "just grieving" but taking the time for practical reasons. It's not just the funeral organisation though, I would worry about leaving my mother afterwards but I would have to draw the line somewhere, just as employers also do but it is potentially a very difficult situation.

The last time I visited my parents, one of their ex-pat friends had died and so they were attending the funeral during our stay. They complained and criticised that the dead person's closest relative (a niece, they had no biological children) had only come over for a week and had left the day after the funeral. They should have stayed to support the spouse. I used that opportunity to talk to DPs about work constraints and the fact that the niece probably didn't have a choice and that we should discuss a plan for when it happens to us but DM kept crying and DF got angry about us (a) discussing their deaths and (b) the insinuation that I would "put work above" them in that event. They think I should quit work and move in with the surviving parent for 3 months after the funeral.

This has turned into a much longer post than intended. The only other thing I wanted to say is that the worst thing about compassionate leave, as evidenced by this thread and my own real life observations, is the assumption that after the week/2 days/whatever, you will be "over it". In many ways, a week would eb absolutely fine, if it came with extended understanding and compassion when you return to work.

As with all these things it s a question of who pays. Whilst I absolutely agree that you cannot put a time limit on grief or define levels of "closeness" you have to think about what you would be prepared to pay for.

I am self -employed. When Dad died I reduced the number of clients I saw. It almost halved my income and long term my business suffered. Same now that my DM is ill.

If you had a nanny or a builder or ran a small business what would you be prepared/able to give? Could you afford to pay your childminder for three weeks on full pay whilst paying for alternative childcare? Often in discussions about what we should be entitled to we forget what should then have to provide to others. Big companies and Public Sector employers are often not seen as having any real costs.

I think a couple of days and the rest as Annual Leave or unpaid leave is feasible. V sorry of course for anyone going through bereavement.

I'm so sorry about your family's lack of understanding, Namechangey - quite obviously you're doing the very best you can, and while these things are difficult I'd have hoped they'd have more empathy with your circumstances too

As with all these things it s a question of who pays. Whilst I absolutely agree that you cannot put a time limit on grief or define levels of "closeness" you have to think about what you would be prepared to pay for

Also fully agree with this, since however much we wish it could be otherwise, financial reality matters too. Without any wish to be insensitive, I wonder if things are sometimes spoiled by those who appear to have an infinite supply of grandparents who pass away at "convenient" times - believe me as an employer I've seen it all too often

They think I should quit work and move in with the surviving parent for 3 months after the funeral.

Will the surviving parent then provide you with enough money to replace your salary for those three months and however long after it takes you to find a new job? It sounds like your parents have a very skewed version of the world. I'm sorry for you

I've also worried about my DF passing away overseas, as my mother will likely need considerably care as she has barely controlled schizophrenia and I'm sure my father passing will trigger a major episode (got a hint a few years ago when she lost touch with reality and I couldn't tell if DF had died or not - he hadn't, but I realised she'd likely be that if he had, as well). I probably should think more concretely about how I'll manage that and what are the immigration rules as I might have to bring her back with me and unsure if she'd be able to live on her own back in her home country or not. (They're similar in age, but DF is in pretty poor health, and all of DM's female relatives have lived to 100 or beyond, so pretty good odds that it will be DM left alone.)

I'm in Ireland. I got 3 days last autumn when DFIL died, DH also got 3 days from his employer but didn't use them all. He had been able to work at various times in the hospice, while with his Dad (in coma) and in the family home while others were with his DDad and the company had allowed that flexibility pretty much (I think, in reality, they would have been a LOT more flexible had DH felt he needed it - but he himself wanted to work and felt he needed to stay engaged with a couple of projects).

DH is now though, feeling the burden of having taken no time off around then or since. We live away from the family home (both of us) and he has had to be back a lot to help his DM. As well as continued travel for work. So he is intending taking a few days off, to himself, in a couple of weeks. And probably not even telling his DM that he's off (or she'll give him a guilt trip about it).

Civil service rules here are a week for parent, spouse or dependent child. 3 days for a close relative (PILs, Grandparents, Grandchildren etc) and 1 day for wider relatives. Generally though, funeral is going to church the night after the death and funeral/burial/crematorium the following day here. It's unusual enough to be any more than a further day or 2 beyond that (to allow family members to travel usually, although now crematoriums are more popular that is also a factor). But certainly nothing like the wait that seems to happen in the UK.

Civil service is also pretty reasonable in terms of allowing compassionate leave for caring and not forcing immediate return (on an unpaid basis) where necessary. Bereavement leave (previous paragraph) is paid leave, but carers leave and other compassionate leave is unpaid. And usually managers are understanding enough about allowing annual leave on an emergency basis (as in, not worrying about sanctioning in advance etc) for such purposes where the staff member has annual leave to use. Although now that the system has been centralized, there is less freedom that individual managers have to be compassionate around this.

I'm going back 30 years but when my DD died suddenly I was given three days, then the phone calls started asking when I was returning to work. To attend the Chapel of Rest and the funeral, I had to book it off as holiday. I didn't stay much longer with that company after that.

One of many posts, of course, but my husband died unexpectedly last year. It's not about compassionate leave when you lose your partner, you are not fit for work. I was signed off for 6 weeks and then decided to go back. I often think I should have taken a bit more time.
I'm fortunate to have paid sick leave, of course, if you don't it must be very hard to manage on SSP at such a difficult time.

I wasn't fit for work after my father died, though I had some time off over the death and funeral. A few weeks later, my manager took me aside and was very understanding in the way he said, "You need to take some action, see a counsellor or something - you're no use to me at the moment, not achieving anything, and if you're not seen to be doing something, I'm not going to have any choice about starting disciplinary action, which we both know won't help." I hadn't realised I was so bad - I mean, I knew I wasn't achieving much, but I hadn't realised it was impacting anyone else. I was lucky to have a manager like that, and I needed to hear that from someone. It also meant when my mother died 8 years later, I was much more prepared for how it might hit me and dealt with it better as a result. (Work wise, anyway.)