AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

Hi FirstVix. Welcome. Just to echo what Hovercraft said, sorry if we have lost our tempers at times - it's hard not to!

Hovercraft swoops in like some sort of cross between Spiderman and Captain America.

Lost our temper on occasion! Minimising much?

In our defence, you are extremely irritating and antagonistic.

Buttered "I think decisions of this magnitude should be taken by people who actually have a clue what is going on"

And you at age 30 think you have enough magnitude, do you?

on behalf to those of us who have looked at the issues and realised that remain is the only logical option

I would love to know what issues your looking at, The ones I am seeing scream - LEAVE.

It concerns me some Remainers are looking to the EU as a solid, steady safe bet.

Its not. Vote to Remain but do so with full awareness that the EU is in a critical state, it is not coping at all with the current issues its facing. The Far Right has never looked so strong across the region since WWII.

Nothing is secure, everything can change very quickly. ( everything is changing quickly) Remember that when you vote.

And you at age 30 think you have enough magnitude, do you?

Good point.

Personally I am a fan of democracy. I agree with people getting the vote but this ties in with my desire to leave the EU. I do not want a huge United States of Europe.

However, in some respects its a shame, that people can vote without perhaps a certain level of life experience/travel and so on. As we have seen examples of, on this thread.

As a 30 year old who is currently doing a masters degree on this subject and whose job requires in depth knowledge of the EU, I think I have a greater understanding of the issues than most of the voting population. My age is neither here nor there.

TTIP is a nightmare and there has been a backlash across the EU as it has some clout, so there is hope.

But if we Brexit we will be in a rough trading period and a pro business party, ie tories and blairites would sign up to a mini TTIP in a flash as well a a privatization fire sale.

Has any country come forward and said "its fine if UK brexit?"??

Oh dear muffin - there you go again making sweeping generalisations about hoi polloi and the thickos of the GP.

You were 8 when I moved abroad, so yeh, I'd say I've got more experience about what the EU actually involves. In fact, huge swathes of the UK population have partaken in what I like to call "life" for decades upon decades.

Many of us continued to learn after we left full-time indoctrination learning. It's quite extraordinary what can be achieved by application of thought.

Well, that was pleasant.

The EU is a complex machine. It is baffling enough to most people who are highly intelligent and educated. And - not to put too fine a point on it - half the voting population is of below average intelligence.

I've worked in a good number of jobs, in more than one country. I've decided to undertake further studies (at considerable expense) in the hope of increasing my knowledge and bettering my career prospects. I've done my best on this thread to share some of that knowledge to help people form their own views.

What have you contributed, besides sneering?

It concerns me some Remainers are looking to the EU as a solid, steady safe bet

err no, its the lesser of two evils tbh,

The UK is pretty right wing, as shown by the tories getting back in again as people were loving austerity over people paying their taxes, and the recent taking money of disabled etc to give people tax breaks etc.

A Blairite (corbyn will get nobbled by establishment at some point), Ian duncan smith/John Redwood type government (as there is no "Brexit" party) fills me with fear as to what would happen to those on low incomes, vocational jobs, the infirm etc as private industry would be allowed to completely tear up many environmental and social protections that would have NOT been brought in otherwise. Its a damning indictment that we sign waivers on the working time directive.

And - not to put too fine a point on it - half the voting population is of below average intelligence

Ghastly!

Breaking, Please.

StepIntoTheLight, what do you think the word "average" means?

I'm #TeamBrexit, I've also got an IQ of 150, speak 3 EU languages and have a passive understanding of 2/3 more. Should I get 2/3 votes for every one of yours?

Does anyone know the name of the democratic process which aims to restrict the thoughts of those deemed "insufficiently astute"? Doesn't sound like much of a democratic process to me - but then I'm one of those woolly liberals who believes everyone deserves their voice, even if I don't agree. :)

Representative democracy means we vote for the party we think best represents our views and leave the complex economic decisions to them. Not sure why people seem to think that the right to have a referendum about everything is a basic principle of democracy: it isn't.

Still chuckling to myself about StepIntoTheLight's mathematical faux pas. It's fairly clear which half of the voting population he/she is in.

The usual suspects at it as usual.

Apparently we are supposed to be impressed that they once took the central line through bank station, it means they 'know some people' in the city.

What job did you have in the city Hovercraft? Probably someones intern or are you another 30yr old 'student' ?

Doing your best with the put downs but failing miserably as usual. Think you know everything when in fact you know four fifths of fuck all.

Buttered thinking she is anyone's intellectual superior is most amusing.

What's the cut off IQ point to be allowed a vote by the way? Obviously above mine.

buttered But did you or did you not say that "stupid people" do not deserve to have a vote in a referendum? But you would allow them to vote in a general election? How does that work then? The logic that they can vote for some things but not for others?

Would it work something like this?

Intelligence Type A:
Full voting rights given

Intelligence Type B:
Full voting rights given but must adhere to preferential voting as decreed

Intelligence Type C:
Partial voting rights; may vote in general elections (n.b., not swing seats) but not referendum or vote shown to exhibit expression of free thought

Intelligence Type D:
X-factor, Britain's Got Talent and I'm a celebrity