AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

Inkanta - I think one of these two men may be posting from the bottom of a glass. That's what he sounds like to me, and the gratuitious aggression is coming from something else, not his enthusiastic support of EU-in. Best not to engage further.

How does one "not engage further" when they haven't been engaging at all, out of interest?

haha Cut oh my, you really do take the biscuit.

You've just nastily attacked anohter poster on another thread. You have attacked me in the past. Your levels of hypocracy and staggering lack of self awareness would be funny if they weren't incredibly large character flaws.

You have continually conflated EU immigration, refugees and non EU immigration on here, posted unprovable anecdotal "facts" in the face of independently sourced evidence, you yourself have tried to query the UCL study, and when presented with an independent peer review still question in.

You turn every debate, including this one, into immigration, and felt the need to comment on a TTIP thread without really any understanding of it, or what it entails, I believe you were worried about freedom of movement from the USA? Laughable that you felt able to pass any comment on something you blatantly have never heard of, yet you jumped on it because you think it proves your point about the EU.

You can say what you like about me, couldn't give a monekys what someone like you thinks. I bet you're great fun at parties. :)

We all know news papers are questionable but it still does not mean, every thing written in them is not true, or someone has not said something.

I also dislike the sneering that someone posts express links.

I imagine Cut is better fun than You lurked.

There is a heavey leaden tank like style to your posting...

Lol. I imagine Nigel Farage is better fun than John Major. Unfortunately, John Major is right about the EU and Nigel Farage is wrong.

Lurcio - What do you mean I have just attacked another poster elsewhere? You mean I stated something you did not like.

Don't laugh about possible free movement between USA & EU; they are afterall talking TTIP and which should such a clause not be added - as it was in the trade agreement for Norway? Use some imagination, think outside of the box. Come on now.

But you can question links to the Telegraph and the Mail that distort evidence, its easily done.

"Don't laugh about possible free movement between USA & EU; they are afterall talking TTIP and which should such a clause not be added - as it was in the trade agreement for Norway? "

Any little tiny bit of research into TTIP would show you that freedom of movement is not on the cards. See you haven't even bothered to do that, yet you feel free to comment.

Buttered, no one is right or wrong about the EU, its an organic growing thing.

It might turn out to be a slick money making production that generates huge wealth for everyone, including millions of migrants heading its way.

On the other hand it might continue to fail and spiral downwards into further stagnation and debt.

But no one is right. Or wrong. We just look at whats happened and judge as best we can.

Lurked the Guardian has also distorted many an article.

They all do, its worrying that the focus is always on the same papers.

I don't link to the Guardian on many occasions for that reason, it makes it easier to discredit your argument.

However the Guardian has been one of the papers, and George Monbiot in particular, warning of the dangerous of TTIP for a considerable amount of time.

Ok, maybe that was a bit flippant, but if you actually read what John Major has said and written about the EU, it is pragmatic, intelligent, well-reasoned and based on a sound understanding of how the single market works and why we will not be able to negotiate a deal which gives us access to it without accepting free movement and complying with EU laws, as Norway do. He also makes some very wise and salient points regarding the political advantages of remaining in the EU. Farage, on the other hand, is all mouth and no trousers. Everything he says is intended to stir up outrage and appeal to the lowest common denominator, but there is no substance behind it. There is no plan. There is no admission that in order to control our borders and have complete sovereignty over our own laws we would need to leave the single market altogether, nor any acknowledgement of the potential economic consequences of that. Instead there are just empty promises that when we leave we will be able to get whatever deal we want, and attempts to shut down any sensible debate through accusations of scaremongering.

I know which of the two I trust more, and no, it's not the one who would be more fun to have a pint with.

I would have more respect for the tw male posters if they admitted what they are. I really don't know what the big secret is.

How Lurked has the cheek to actually post 'I do not denigrate anyone' takes the biscuit.

Was giving it large when he and his two mates were slaughtering Daisy at every opportunity.

Hypocrite.

John Major had an affair with Edwina Currie.

I wouldn't trust the fellas judgement based on that alone.

I agree Edwina Currie is vile. But I would rather judge politicians on their politics and not on their personal lives. Churchill was a serial adulterer, but we judge him by his (extraordinary) achievements, not his fidelity or lack thereof.

But it doesn't mean his judgement of any EU issues is wrong.

Boris cheated on his wife, Gove made an absolute mess of education, Galloway is a charity fraudster, Farage is the same as Trump. A man who casts plays the role of an outsider to attract disenfranchised voters yet is one of the unltimate insiders ever. Cameron and Osborne are ex Bullingdon club members

They are all flawed.

You are pro-John Major because of his politics?
That's because you subscribe to his view. I prefer Farage because I subscribe to his view.

Ridiculous argument.

The may be all flawed but the leading Remain figure head Corbyn (apart from call me Dave) changed his 40 year old convictions because he suddenly smelled the Bisto.

I could never trust a man like that.

Any little tiny bit of research into TTIP would show you that freedom of movement is not on the cards.

USA wants to work towards reducing various regulations which some businesses consider a barrier to better trading. EU has some good regulations in place, esp. with regard to food safety - far better than USA's. UK wants to loosen our banking regs to be more in line with USA, plus other matters.

The EU itself says there will be some unemployment as jobs switch to USA. If jobs switch to USA there may be an agreement that some Europeans can move to USA if those jobs are 'specialist' roles. Similar to an internal transfe' within an multinational.

Movement may not be on the official agenda, but if you have ever been privy - just a little bit - to big business meetings, you will know that side issues are inevitably visited, discussed, dismissed or enlarged.

buttered - I see you are still on gardening leave, then.

It's not ridiculous to point out that John Major's position on the EU is clearly based on a sound understanding of how the EU works and realism about what the UK could achieve outside it, whereas Nigel Farage's position on the EU appears to be based on populist sound bites and ignores the fundamental facts. If John Major said I could expect my taxes to go up and Nigel Farage promised me a free house I would certainly prefer Farage's offer. But to expect him to actually be able to deliver on it would be extremely naive.

Waffle...you know it's Sunday, right?

John Major though ha ha

I see the quality of your arguments hasn't improved at all since we last spoke, HelpfulChap...