I honestly don't know. Sensitive subject.

[QuirksAndQuandaries]

I am a long term frequent poster but have namechanged as I just want the information here to be considered in isolation. I am happy to change back later if anyone is concerned about trolling.

Parents (M and F) are told by their teenage daughter (D) that her uncle (B - M's younger brother) sexually abused her repeatedly throughout childhood. B is arrested but denies it to the police. B later admits to his mother (D's grandmother) that he did do it. M and F are also aware of this, and tell D. The family unit ceases contact with B, but all still see the grandmother separately.

D is interviewed by police (she describes the abuse while recorded and with M and F watching behind a screen) and is told she can attempt prosecution. At home, M asks D not to because of fears for B's safety in prison. D drops the subject.

A while later D finds a recent postcard from B and realises that M is still in contact. She is angry and upset and confronts M as she sees it as a betrayal, but is told that she cannot control M's relationship with B. The subject is again dropped.

For the next 15 years M continues seeing B, but hides it. F is not happy about it but does not interfere. D suspects but the subject is never approached.

I'm sorry this all sounds ridiculous. But I have wondered for a long time what is 'right' in this mess. If indeed there is any 'right' at all.

I guess I am asking 1) is M right to continue seeing B, and 2) does D have the right to be upset about it.

Be gentle. Please.

Your feelings are right.

in all honesty what actually happened feels nowhere near as hurtful and as life-altering as the way my parents handled it. Or didn't.

That's what really stands out from this thread.

Well done on the work you've done for yourself tonight. Sleep well fuzzpig

I don't know really, if it was a power thing. Maybe he thought of it as such (he couldn't see me BTW, we are in a first floor flat). But with my mum, I think it's just that she doesn't think about my feelings in it. She wants to see him, so she does. That's what she is like in so many aspects of life.

They are completely non-confrontational. They are pushovers actually. I found my strength when I had my babies, I fight for them. They didn't. I have zero respect for them. Who doesn't stick up for their own child?

Thank you

And now I really am going to try and sleep

Sleep well fuzz, we'll all be here if you need us.

And I forgot to say thank you to those who have shared similar experiences. I am sorry you have been through similar but grateful for you talking to me about it

Sleep tight Fuzz x

I have a brother. I love him very much, I also have daughters. If he abused one of them the only thing stopping me killing him would be the prison sentence and the knowledge that it wouldn't help anybody. I would never , ever have any contact with him again.
I am stunned that a mother could put her brother before her young daughter.

fuzzpig

Have been through very similar.
Myself and my elder sister (amongst others) were abused by our mothers younger brother.
He has never been prosecuted, never will be now.
Our mother still sees him, as do other, extended family members.

My sister and I are extremely close, after years of trying to extricate ourselves from our hugely dysfunctional family.

Neither of us are the forgiving type when it comes to the adults who were supposed to protect us.
The paedophile means nothing to us, her betrayal does.
Totally agree with you.... Who the fuck doesn't stick up for their own child.

Sending you

Actually thank YOU fuzzpig thank you for making it ok to talk about x

OP so very sorry for all you have experienced.

As others have said. None of this is a reason for you to feel guilty. Your uncle may been 16 but he acted as an adult when he abused you.

There are no excuses for that. Not a rough time, illness etc.

Not all abusers have been victims of abuse nor do they go on to commit abuse. To perpetuate the idea that any reason is an excuse for such actions is utterly wrong.

I am so sorry every adult in this terrible scenario let you down.

I think we can look for reasons and maybe assign labels, maybe your dad was a coward, maybe your grandma was blinded by loyalty for her son, maybe your mum is one of those morally corrupt people who cannot make a moral choice.

Please get more therapy to work through this. I do feel you may need to work through the impact of your family's failure in relation to you in the light of realisation how ugh they have all lied/covered up.

You say you cannot lose your grandma too? If you want her in your life that is your choice. Same with your dad or your mum, your choice.

But you are more aware now, you know what your mum is capable of, she persuaded you not to prosecute. She utterly failed you. If in the future you feel able to go no contact, with guidance from a therapist maybe to help you move forward, please do. If so, please do not waste any more guilt on this family. You have a new family.

Also, you may never really understand why your mum did what she did, it's not about sibling loyalty. I would not support my sibling if they did this. Lots of others have said the same. Your mum made a choice.

Please find your own peace and move forward. Please do not make it a requirement for your peace to understand your mum.

I also feel you are letting your uncle off the hook, mentally, there are no excuses for what he did. Your family has created a culture where what he did was not really wrong enough to warrent punishment, but it was, it really was. There are no excuses for him or your mum or the other adults that failed you. Look after you now. Just you and your family.

Bless you.

Sorry that was so long! Just could not stop thinking about you OP. Xxxx

You are very brave fuzzpig to speak out. I second PPs and hope,you go on to get some supportive counselling.

Reading the thread I wonder how far the abuse in your family has spread? Your mum and nan maintaining contact with your abuser makes me wonder if they have also been victims? If they are accepting this behaviour it could be an unconscious denial of the harm that they went through? If not at his hands , then maybe other men in the family? It might be that you are the first person in a horrible chain of abuse to speak up and say 'this stops here'. Which makes your speaking out even braver. Your honesty may well have saved your younger relations.

Best wishes

fuzzpig you're very brave and you've found some support which is great.

If ever you're feeling intimidated by him, know that you always have the upper hand in this situation, you have the power to change his future whenever you like.

Fuzzpig
I don't know what to write and how. It's traumatising just to fucking read your story and you actually went through this. But

1. You are absolutely ok in being confused and not finding strength to prosecute him etc because it is NOT your fault that you didnt get the strength you needed. It was your mother who should have helped you ge it. Your father. Your grandma.

1. That guy is however still out there and could still be hunting his victims and creating more as time goes on.

1. Your absolutely fucking shit of a family consisting of that wanted and his mother and sister and your father don't deserve you. They deserve jail. And deserve it as the culprit and his accomplices.

1. Unless you go and do something about it all, you will never get rid of it and you probably end up giving your (so understandable ) lack of strength to your daughter.

1. That guy has messed up your life big time. Why in the world should be keep getting away with it????

Oh my god. My post will probably be deleted due to all the swearing but I really wish your read it first.

And let me tell you one last thing: if I put myself in M's shoes, I only feel the kind of murderous rage that blinds people into killing the abusers of their children. I really do.

Please please prosecute him. Your daughter will face a hard time intitially as you face the consequences but she will grow up to become the most strong young woman who you will be truly proud of.
And in the mean time this b.... (Hopefully in the jail) could get the thrashing he did deserve from the beginning.
Do it for the sake of your daughter if not for yourself now though I still truly believe your family are scum enough to rub salt into your wounds so why give a flying fuck about such scum.

you feel there is good in this world. And then you come across this kind of stories.

The mother is wrong. I can understand that she may have been shocked and hurt by it all initially and why she would ask D not to prosecute but surely after some time had passed any reasonable person would see that you cannot let someone get away with that type of thing and that your children and their safety come before any other family bond. She should both stop contacting B and support D in taking action against him

I wasn't a victim of the same kind of abuse. But I was abused and failed by my mum.

I still see her so I get why NC isn't a option for everyone. Sometimes to get closure you have to be willing to open up old festering wounds and it's hard for others to understand why NC is not a option.

Your mum is the one person in the world who should have dragged herself over burning coals and broken glass to save you. That's why it's the ultimate pain and betrayal. Because she has let this happen to you.

I don't have any answers. Sometimes these repressed things from decades ago just pop up to haunt you. Now it's back on current agenda it's time to face it and deal with it. But how you do that is totally up to you. You can't destroy yourself in the process

That's awful OP, so sorry to read it. Your mother is totally in the wrong. Even if it was something innocuous, like an argument over something petty, I would expect the mother to back the daughter unless she was being unreasonable. This is appalling.

I just can't imagine forgiving a sibling for hurting my children though.

I can't forgive my brother for abusing his child, I don't know how parents can forgive when someone hurts their child!

Over 15yrs ago I found out my brother sexually abused his daughter, and her friend. He also had more children, and we don't know if they ever experienced anything.

I didn't have children at this time. But I cut contact & haven't spoken to him since.

He was found guilty & served time. I have children now, and I am NEVER going to let them meet him, or be around him. I also have no interest in him.

I am so sorry for what you went through in this, and I think your mother is way out of order. My brother's wife vowed to stand by him, and wait for him to get out of prison. She was told that she would lose her children if she did that. I think she decided not to in the end, but only because she didn't want to lose the children. I am pretty sure that if HAD she lost them, she would still be with him.

It's fucked up, op. I have no idea how anyone can stand by people like that!

Omg I didn't know what to say when I initially read this. I cried. I am so sorry.
Now I'm angry for you. You said you think your mother and gm were looking for a reaction. What is now going through my mind is: Why are these two women pushing him in your face? Are they trying to control you? Are they perhaps punishing you for daring to tell the police/social workers? Do they treat you well otherwise or are they controlling? Do they use synde nasty asides, which if you said anything you'd be overreacting because it was a joke or do they verbally abuse you?

I was not sexually abused. My family (mother, brother - father deceased) was and still is verbally and physically abusive. I recently came to the realisation my elder brother got close to crossing the line on the sexual abuse front. Had he done so, I know my post would have read the same as yours. I'm the scapegoat, brother golden child. Mother dismisses my brothers abusive treatment of me in childhood as sibling rivalry. I imagine in many ways your mother has more of a motherly bond her brother having such a vast age gap. I've had lots of counselling btw and have minimal contact with them to protect both me and my young daughter, who has recently been their target. All I know now is that I'm a darn sight happier than them. I hope you are happier too! I too have chronic fatigue syndrome (ME) and fibromyalgia. I understand it to be more common in people with difficult upbringings. Apparently part of the cause for this disease is the body can't cope with the chemical reaction produced by constantly being in fight or flight.
I can see you are in a good place and hope you continue to work through any pain. The clearer and more contented I become, the more clearly I see how so many people are eff'd up. I start to feel more pity and less anger toward my family.

Morning all

Jane I don't think they were trying to get a reaction. I think it was the opposite, that mum didn't even think about my feelings at all.

I have also heard that about ME/fibro etc (was diagnosed with fibro on Friday actually) - your body is put under strain when you go through trauma as a child and it changes you physically. Sorry you have it too. It sucks [understatement]

Fight or flight has always seemed inaccurate to me. There's a third option - freeze. That's what I do.

I am off out for some fresh air so won't be around until later but I'm not ignoring the posts.

Absolutely! the mother is disgustingly wrong, her precious daughter was raped by HER brother, how can she just dismiss her child like that? puttingh her brother above her child, her child has every right to be very angry. That mother was suppose to cut all communication with her brother and let her brother be prosecuted, he has probaly done this before or even after, this does not happen once as he raped the chilld several times! This mother is showing her daughter that being raped is ok and that she does not care about what had happend, as for the father, how can he just stand by? he also is teaching his daughter that what has happend is ok and that he does not care enough to do something or say something about it. This to me is devastating, personally if anyone even touches my daughter inapropriately i will definately show them what kind of mother i am and that absolutely no person man or woman messes with my child like that. You as a Mother is your childs protector and guardian and should stand up for your child, rape is not ok, abuse of any kind is not ok, that child has no security from her own parents.

More recent thinking suggests there are 5 F's in a crisis - fight, flight, freeze, friend or flop. Your brain automatically does what it needs to to try and keep you alive, you have no control over what you do. Hence all the 'why didn't you fight him off' stuff is a load of rubbish.

fuzz, I am so sorry you've been through this and that you were treated so appallingly by your family. Hope the fresh air helps.

Hi Fuzzbox,
I'm really sorry this happened to you.
Just to echo what everyone has said, you have every right to be angry, hurt, upset and let down by your family.
It's really hard when it's family though, isn't it?
It's not the same issue but I had to report something to the police last year and I was offered a course of counselling. I begrudgingly accepted and it was actually one of my good decisions. We spoke about years of abuse that I'd endured and we made a plan of action. A while after I went on to see another counsellor where we looked into my complicated family relationships. I still see them (occasionally) but I keep them at an arms length and it's on my terms.
Interestingly I also have similar health problems as you. Again, I was told it's likely due to trauma.
The reason I'm saying this is, would you consider going back to the police? I know you've had lots of counselling but I think the fact you've posted this thread it shows that there's lots more to explore and to try and make sense of.
I'm aware discussing issues close to your heart is incredibly hard and painful but sometimes I think you need to do that to allow yourself to move on. I think you need to be heard.
I wish you lots of love and luck in your journey x