To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

[YoJesse]

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

sorry just read u were standing

I have gone home and cried after people have been nasty to me in the street. It is awful And the more it happens the more worried about it you become. I stay home a lot braise it is just too depressing. You have made him feel that way. He is not required to a Assess other people and decide who to ask. He can Ask anyone in a priority sear. It's not your call to decide he should have asked someone else.

My children would always give up a seat for anyone older than them, just as I would. Whatever happened to manners? No wonder so many youngsters are so rude when they have their parent's example to follow.

clonemenow
who are you talking to?

And this is the reason that I have been driven off public transport.

I know not everyone is like this, but it's so tolerated and excused by society, and there is something so grossly unfair about them never suffering any consequence to their actions... Yet they impose great consequences on people like me, casually and without a second thought.

Whilst other people have the luxury of discussing and 'confronting' and generally making a massive fuss about the absolute horror and shock that anyone would ask them to move on public transport... The disabled person may well be in agony, every second counts for many (most?) disabilities.

I would not be able to stand, whilst a bus load of entitled bastards took their own sweet time about making some kind of prejudiced judgement about how much I fitted to their stereotypes.

These kind of incidents put my health at risk. It's rather sickening that to go out into the public sphere, I have to play Russian roulette with my health... And these cruel, ignorant people get to carry on their lives, whilst they harm mine.

Oh the lottery, I remember it well: Do I look needy and different enough from them to merit the great privilege of a seat? Of course my disabled appearance will be the reason none of them would ever treat me like one of them, but hey, at least someone might give me a seat once in a while. Or do I look like a normal human being? In which case kiss goodbye for any compassion or thoughtfulness.

I cannot rely on people behaving appropriately towards me, so buses and trains are another bit of life that I'm pushed out of. And therefore my child too, as that really messes with people's heads. It's not possible to be a mother and a disabled person.

It's all just so needless and wasteful. And I suspect the people that force disabled people out of public life, still expect those disabled work shy scroungers to hold down a job etc, although quite how the person they've driven off public transport is to get to that job isn't something they give a shit about.

Politeness, compassion and humanity. Rare rare qualities.

poostories what a horrible thing to say to someone! I'm whats wrong with the world???? You've made that judgement after reading about one incident where I politely asked why he didn't ask the more able bodied passengers to move. Do you really how totally harsh what you said was?

miscellanous I have learnt from this thread and will not question a persons odd choice of other person that should get up for them. In future I'll just suck it up. Everything I said I said quietly and politely. He was the one asking without saying please and accepting without a thank you and swearing. Do you think being disabled is an excuse for bad manners? I don't.

Miscellaneous - the man in the OP wasn't polite, and would you actually approach a three year old to obtain the seat you need? This is coming from someone who also finds it very difficult to stand and would be polite but would not ask a small child. I have a recently turned four year old DC who I'd consider vulnerable standing on a bus, especially if I was standing with her as I'm not able bodied enough to protect her nor pick her up if she fell.

In London the priority seats show a picture of a mother with child, a three year old is still very young.

perhaps the disabled person wanted to sit in that particular seat because of where it was situated

Btw I'd have been fine if someone had had a polite and sensible conversation like 'my sons not great at staying upright if he's standing' and then that person and me/ disabled person looking around for a likely volunteer to help. As long as the bus driver hadn't decided to pull off before the disabled person had managed to get a seat...

It's this senseless aggression and confrontation that has chased me off the streets and transport. The instant 'you're the enemy fight fight fight' bollocks attitudes that happen.

I'm able bodied (although I do have a chronic bowel condition, so could wax lyrical on loo politics). Ironically the one and only time I was 'confronted' by someone when sitting in the priority seats was when I was temporarily unable to comply. I'd put my back out (fairly severely), was away on business and literally couldn't lift my bag unaided, nor lift an arm above my head to hold on. I still had to get home.

I got a lot of shit as I looked like a 30 yr old in an expensive suit. I nearly didn't make my train as I hadn't booked 'assistance' at the time. In the end a member of the public and a very kind station assistant willing to break the rules. I actually felt quite humbled when I realised that this was probably

I always offered seats prior to this when I saw someone obviously in need - priority or not - but I'm not sure I really understood how important it was until I was temporarily unable to cope with standing on public transport myself.

OP I think you took the wrong approach (and I can see you've agreed with that), but I agree with others that it would have looked better if you were on the seat with DS on knee (and also taken up less space). Sweary dad as just rude as he couldn't help.

No I wouldn't have pasta but that's not a reason to be aggressive and confrontational.

Maybe he doesn't have kids and has no idea what age does what?

Maybe he dreads this moment each time, and gets all awkward and defensive as he's so very vulnerable at that moment, and utterly dependent on people helping him... Which isn't exactly a foregone conclusion!

Maybe he's scared of asking the other types of people...

When I was still believing I was allowed to participate in society, I got pretty damn scared of asking people too. I'd avoid certain types of possible, having had such terrible experiences so many times before.

Mind you, I found it was the besuited business men who were the worst, and sadly, a lot of women my own age. Young men tended to be very thoughtful and polite, and even football supporters on their way to a match were really lovely. Oh and pregnant women would often help me get a space, instead of the unfortunate grabby competition for resources stuff that goes on here.

That's a horrible thing to say essex
I'm very used to being taken advantage of as I tend to just do whats asked of me. For once I questioned it and came up feeling that maybe I was being taken advantage of again and that he may have thought 'she doesn't look like she's got the strength to say no, I'll ask her rather than one of the people without tiny children'. Yes I judged it wrong and you don't question people who say there disabled but bullying? No. not then and not ever. It's something that I'd never do. I feel guilty if I 'confront' people who are blatantly rude to my face and spend the rest of the day hoping I didn't offend them.

I said it because I don't think you would have confronted him had someone else not stepped in first.. Apologies if I'm wrong but that's how your post read to me.

The Dads reaction hit the 'oh is this guy being unreasonable and I'm just so used to complying I'm not seeing it' button and for whatever reason I acted on those feelings. Very, very out of character for me.

He took advantage of you?

You could have said no. I was taught to give a seat to an adult as a child. Maybe times have changed.

Why should he justify his choice of seat to you?

You didn't "politely" ask him, could not have asked this question politely as it was not a polite question to ask.

Yabu

Priority seats aren't just for disabled people. They are for pregnant people, people with small children and people less able to stand.

Not sure how it works everywhere else, but in London, on the tube and busy buses, those able bodied tend to stand for small children, the elderly, people who be preggers and the disabled. Most people do before they are asked, others will wait till someone does. I've never in 10years see someone refuse to stand if they were able.

I don't think you were BU OP. As a young and able bodied person, if I saw a small child having to stand up in a busy environment I would have given up my seat instead. I haven't read this whole post admittedly, but from the first few comments I think standing up for your small son in an environment where he's likely to get squished or be in the way, was the right call.

What I don't get, OP, is why you didn't sit on the seat and put your son on your lap in the first place. That to me would have been the obvious thing to do.

OP one incident where I politely asked

There's nothing polite about tapping someone on the shoulder and questioning them.

I'm still confused as to why a 3 year old couldn't stand on a bus. Mine did it all the time at the age and used to love it and pretend they were surfing or something like.

I wouldn't have confronted him, however OP I do agree that adults are far better able to stand on a bus than a three year old, and he should have asked one of the others to move.

I frequently making a point when on public transport of standing up to allow a child to sit down. To be honest I think a long journey is very draining on old people and young children alike. If the man had no obvious disabilities then it is perfectly reasonable to ask him.

YANBU

Tara hit the nail on the head (and has conveniently been ignored by those wanting to vent their bad experiences on public transport, which, while shocking, are irrelevant).

By law children cannot travel in a car without a proper restraint. Therefore it follows logically that requiring them to stand on a moving bus is lunacy. I've witnessed a woman fly so fast down the gangway of a bus (emergency stop) that she hit her head against the front windscreen, lost consciousness and a lot of blood and was taken away in an ambulance. A grown woman. And yet three year olds should stand on buses? Fuck me.

Of course the man had every right to ask for a seat, and as a result of being asked to move, you had every right to then turf someone else out of a priority seat for your son. If everyone else happened to have a hidden disability, then I'm afraid the last one on has to wait for the next bus.

OP, had it been me, I would have replied 'yes of course, as long as I can find somewhere else for my son to sit'. In a LOUD voice. Not his fault he needs to sit. Not your son's fault he is three and has neither the strength, nor the judgement to know how much to hang on so that he doesn't get injured.

I swear, MN is bonkers on the kids on buses issue. Proper mad.

Excuse me, you're saying that real life experience of those who live with disability every day is irrelevant?
Why is that?
Because I can see full well how

1. it could explain this man's way of dealing with the situation

and

2. why it makes the OP and the other parent in this situation completely out of order in their actions.

It's all too easy to dismiss real life experience of the disability community as irrelevant, not important and of no consequence when you're not living it. It's a real eye opener.