To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

[YoJesse]

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

I think HumptyDumpty that posters who have spoken about their own tough experiences on transport are trying to get the OP to realise what it must have been like to be in the shoes of the man she gave her seat to and then went back to query he was even entitled to it. Relevant.

OP people are losing sympathy because this is a thread where you have clearly been told YABU and you are still trying to argue you weren't.

If anything YABU not to ask one of the young people to move and place your son safely on their seat rather than go back

Humpty, I'm ignoring Tara because I fundamentally disagree that 3-year-olds can't stand on buses. So what's there to say?

And your argument isn't logical, as it's illegal for anybody to travel in a car without a restraint, not just young children.

People (of any age) flying through buses and braining themselves is not an everyday occurrence, or we'd hear more of it.

I'm gobsmacked at the idea that you'd stand at the front of a bus and say loudly 'Only if someone gives my child a seat'. How rude to the disabled person who has been forced to ask you to move, because you plonked an able-bodied child in a priority seat.

Hold your child's hand, ffs. If someone is kind enough to offer, great. (I and many other people on this thread have said they would.) But don't make a fuss about a healthy, walking child bring entitled to a seat someone else is already in.

I have been tutted at and had funny looks for declining a seat and making my child stand on the bus. Seems it's not the done thing. Little ones do get thrown around a bit, and it is easier if they are sitting.

Fair enough.

I would love a magic wand that could reveal the current bus users, current car users and cyclists on this thread though. I bet it would be revealing.

My stats: 4-8 bus journeys a day during term-time, 4 of those with children.

P.S.

And your argument isn't logical, as it's illegal foranybodyto travel in a car without a restraint, not just young children.

She's being perfectly logical. She said "proper restraint" which is different for young children to adults. Adults have to have seat belts- children have to have specific car seats for their weight, because sitting down with a seat belt isn't safe enough.

In fact, people have debates over forward-facing car-seats versus rear-facing car-seats for young children!

What do many others have said - you wanted your toddler to sit on a seat! Fine, so you should have had the bottle to ask someone else to give up their seat.

The Dad was a total prick, by the way, and I would have had no hesitation to stand up to him if I were the disabled man or another passenger.

I don't understand why you weren't sitting on the seat with your DS on your knee.

i love people like the op
why have doctors when you have them.
they can tell at a glance if people are able bodied

Tis true, samcro.

I'm a car user that occasionally uses public transport.

I was driven off public transport due to issues with disability.

Hth

My dds stood on a bus when the driver did a sudden stop and dd1 fell forward and ended up with concussion and a big nose bleed so I think dc should be seated when possible. To me the man should have asked if anyone was able to give up a priority seat as he needed one. He didn't know your dc wasn't disabled so that's presumptuous too.
I recently took my 3dc to London and I have to say my experience was totally different to the mn impression - so many people from all walks of life offered my dc their seats. When we sat on the train home my dc all had seats but then it became standing room only so I moved dd3 onto my lap and people seemed genuinely surprised and grateful.

You stated being unreasonable when you put your 3 year old on a seat. How much do you pay for his fare?

Why wasn't he on your knee?

It is so hard to ask for a seat. I'm fair obviously disabled, I have a crutch and a cane (VI), but even I feel uncomfortable asking people to move, to the point that most of the time I don't. I often have to go right to the back of the bus, which is bloody hard, because I'm frightened of people like the OP having a go at me if I ask them to move.

Being disabled makes every area of life difficult. The priority seats are there to make life just that little bit easier. Of course you were being unreasonable.

Of course you were being aggressive. You admit yourself you only 'confronted him' because the other guy swore at him which prompted you to join in.

That pissed bit of the op's story really ground my gears. It reminded me on the snide kids who's hang around with the bullies and would feel emboldened to have a few digs once the bully had softened up the victim.

Given that once the man with the disability was subject to rude and aggressive questioning from the man behind him, I don't blame him for asking the least confrontational looking person (the three year old) to stand. If he'd asked the man behind he'd have probably been greeted with a volley of four letter words and a refusal.

AdrenalineFudge Sat 02-Apr-16 14:56:59

Whenever I'm on public transport I always wonder where all these MN vigilante types are as I've never had the pleasure of witnessing a pram / wheelchair dispute or someone asking someone else to move. Seems I'm travelling to and from the wrong places.

- I have often wondered this too, Adrenaline!

I have recently had surgery - and have had to take the bus twice to follow up hospital appointments. Fortunately my appointments have been out of rush hour, and my stop is fairly early on in the route, so I've got a seat - usually a priority seat. (Travelling on the bus is difficult - but not impossible, provided I have a seat and I'm not at risk of being jostled in the area of the surgery).

I have been bracing myself for an MN vigilante type, as Adrenaline puts it, to rock up requiring my seat for child, and ready to whip up my floatly dress to display my five surgical scars and loudly announce my medical condition - but not yet been put to the test.

Anyone can sit in the priority seats if they are unoccupied, the op has done nothing wrong there. It does not necessarily follow that the needs of this man were greater than the needs of the child. The point is we do not know, and indeed will never know. The assumption is that this man had a greater need, nevertheless when requesting the seat he Whois have been polite it is not an automatic right to have the seat

I've read most of the thread and break it down as

Man declares he's disabled and asks for your sons seat.

Your natural reaction is to not question and give the man your childs seat (a good quality to have, demonstrates that your basic morals are decent)

Man is then verbally assulted by another adult.

You then feel like you've been a dormat and question your judgement in moving.

Your reaction was then, possibly not your finest hour, to question the disabled mans judgement in choosing your son to move.

I feel your basic judgement/ instinct to move your DS when this man had declared he was disabled was a sound one. Your somewhat provoked reaction by the verbal assult was misjudged

In a similar circumstance would you consider possing the question to the other priority seat users 'Are there any of you here more able to stand than my very young child?'

It was a hard question for the disabled man to ask you and possibly why you didn't ask on for your DS. But if you felt your DS's need possibly trumped the need of others seated then your responsibility was to ask on his behalf. The one person who shouldn't have been questioned was the disabled man because he had already declared his disability.

I don't think the op confronted the disabled man for rightfully claiming a disabled seat, but for the choice of person he asked (the small boy) out of the available options.

The op stated several pages ago that she understands she was BU

Children who are too big to share YOUR seat, stand. As a non-disabled but somewhat weary 65 year old I think I deserve the seat more than your energetic, fit kids.

I'm still not sure why the op thought the man ought to justify his choice of seat to her?

The man had other options other than the the seat with the 3 year old in it, so I get where you are coming from OP.

You were being unreasonable. When I was a child, our parents always made us stand up and let adults have our seat, if the bus was crowded - no question about it! I don't understand what has happened in this country - all these common courtesies like letting adults sit down, queuing at bus stops (in London anyway), etc seem to have gone out of the window!

I have an invisible disability, which makes standing up on public transport and holding onto something excruciating. I have never asked the consultant for a letter to get priority seats on trains. DD has epilepsy (which is invisible) and may have a seizure at any time. We rarely travel on public transport with her due to the stresses involved, but occasionally we have to take her to hospitals in London and if we go by train, I do ask people to let her have a priority seat - but its a hard thing to do, and you never know if you are going to get a mouthful. Luckily, people see her head protection and always give her the seat.

**Yesterday 18:23 lavenderdoilly

MS person here. If no priority seats were freed up for me and it was a stick day for me - I would ask someone to move. I'm ashamed to say i would probably pick a young childless female.**

Whilst I'm not childless, ( he's 15, so unlikely to be sat on my knee/holding my hand/within a 10 meter radious of me in public ) I do look young for my age, so fit your description of who you would ask. However I have arthritis in my knees, a bad back and also a problem with my shoulder, I can and do manage to sit on other seats, but if I get on a crowded bus and the only seat available is the priority seats, then I will sit there as I'm unable to stand on a moving bus for any length of time. This happened a couple of weeks ago and had I been asked to move, I would have refused. I look young and fit enough, despite being in constant pain, though on a really bad day I do have a noticable 'hobble'. However I'm apparently not disabled enough to qualify for a concession card, so I have no proof of my disabilities apart from a handbag full of pills, so would probably look like i was lying if challenged. I would however stand my ground should someone disbelieve me and report me to the driver.

OP YWBU to challenge the disabled man, but I do agree that a 3yo does need a seat, especially round my way where some driver's think they're auditioning for Fast and Furious

Having been in the situation quite a few times! Don't ask but it seems to happen to me! I do think ds should've been able to sit down as 3 year olds find it hard to balance but maybe shouldn't have confronted him after the initial conversation. I would've asked one of the more able bodied people or had him on your knee in the first place. I have actually sat my 3 year old dd in the luggage hold before when there hasn't been any seats!