To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

[YoJesse]

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

Because he's 3.

It was a bit late in the transaction - to carp, but I am sick to death of giving up my seat on crowded buses although I've avoided the priority seats, because the priority seats are taken up by mainly able bodied (and in some cases I know they are as they are locals known to me) who refuse to move because they are doing their makeup or their emails so won't make eye contact. I must look a soft touch because although over 60 they make a bee line for my non priority seat and ask me for my seat as they have a bad wrist and can't hang on- I give up my seat; but resent them passing the priority seat crowd to ask me!! I may be unreasonable but so are some of the askers I've been turfed out of a seat for a lady who claimed she was too fat to stand. I would give up my seat for a toddler and frequently do - I remember how difficult it is with little ones. Priority seats are marked as for the use of Mothers and children too- they are priority users on my buses. As are the over 60's.

I can't actually believe any able bodied person would challenge someone who says they are disabled over a seat on a bus. That's just so awful. Of course a bloody three year old can stand or sit on laps.

Bishop what a ridiculous argument. Because being three is "a temporary state" they are three at that moment in time. If you have a temporarily broken leg are you not allowed the priority seat then?!?!
A three year old would have difficulty holding steady on a moving bus, would not be able to reach the handles. I would always move for a disabled person but to expect a three year old too when there are adults that could move instead is just either showing a lack of common sense or comes from a generational attitude by this man that children should show deference to adults. I suspect the latter in this case but would obviously have to be there. I do always find the attitudes on mumsnet are so different to real life though. It baffles me.

My ds was obviously not blessed with the physical dexterity expected of a 3yo. He was falling all over the place when trying to stand on London buses...

Lots of,points to,answer

samcro tara highlight one bit of my thread that suggested that I didn't for one second think that he had a disability. If someone says they are disabled you don't question it, end of.

Yes I still feel a three year old has seating rights over an ablebodied passenger.

Ant accusing of being mean , jumping on the band wagon are bullshit. Because someone else appeared to think I was being soft I questioned it.

People with disabilities, hidden or otherwise are still normal everyday people. Most are nice normal people and a few are rude, intimidating twats. I'm of the opinion that this guy was a rude, intimidating twat who saw an easy target.
All of you sharing your own stories (which like most normal people, I find shocking and awful for you), did you demand a seat without an excuse me, please or thank you? Or as most people would you asked with curtesy and zero aggression? If he'd done that, however I was about his choice I would have kept quiet and moved.

For clarity I was not seated and if I'd tried to have Ds on my knee he'd have gone fucking mental and been sliding off and screaming the whole time.

voldy. I am truly , so , so sorry I've offended you on this thread. Your advice to me on other threads has been invaluable and I'm so sorry to let you down. I know you probably didn't think much of me to start with but I think a lot of you.

you misread me.....I commented on you diagnosing every one else as being abled bodied.\
you made the situation worse by teaming up with a bully..well done

It must be absolutely anxiety-inducing to have to get on a bus or train, knowing you are likely to have to 'speak up' and ask for someone to give up their seat so you can have it. I imagine for most people it's hard to do, I would struggle with it.

I've seen one lady on a train show a card / pass of some sort to ask a man for the priority seat. He got up straight away. Are cards like these easy to get? Might possibly make it easier for some people?

'Yes I still feel a three year old has seating rights over an ablebodied passenger'

Yes absolutely!

You did right to speak up. I would have done the same to protect the safety of a 3 year old. No doubt about that at all.

Thanks samcro I'd never team up with a bully but the Dad made me think I was being a mug.

essex it must be and I have every sympathy. I. Fact if this thread has taufght me anything it's to be more sensitive to a disabled person having a shitty day. That saiid , it would have to be a pretty shitty day for me to not ask politely for a seat.

I was on a packed rush hour the tube the other morning when a woman with her little girl (4yrs) got on. She held onto the pole which is right next to the priority seat and her mother covered her with her body (iyswim). The rather dapper young man sat in the priority seat smiled at the little girl and then carried on staring into space. I was a bit surprised he didn't stand up for them so they could share a seat, but he didn't. Then the train stopped and a woman got up and pushed through the mother/daughter huddle to get of the train, and whacked the little girl on her forehead with the umbrella sticking out of her bag. The little girl didn't cry, but rubbed her forehead which had a red mark on it from the umbrella. I said the man, can't you stand up and let the little girl sit down, you're in a priority seat and she's getting hurt, and he said 'that's the price you pay for equality'! I said looking after children has nothing to do with equality and he told me to shut my mouth. The little girl did sit down though and was safe. It was actually pretty horrible, but I couldn't bear the thought of her getting hit again.
I guess the moral of the story (thanks for letting me get it off my chest!) is that although some children can be very good at standing on a packed train, sometimes they are not robust enough to cope with the barging, lurching and the shoving from the other adults.

The upshot of all this to my mind is some people are selfish pigs... Not the OP but the majority of opportunists who park themselves in priority seats for no good reason and then refuse to consider anyone may be more entitled to it than them. If people in priority seats understood they were only able to sit there until someone in more need got on there would never be a problem. They would all leap up for the old, very young, pregnant, infirm, I'll etc. It's the fault of an increasingly selfish society- forget it OP it's long over - next time - if there is one, shame the "ignorers" into giving up the seat they shouldn't be in. Although I think many of them are shameless....I could make your hair curl with some transport experiences I've witnessed- this one is a minor faux pas in comparison with some of the tirades and selfish behaviours I've had the joy of watching. You did the right thing but it wasn't down to you to do it- someone else should have offered their seat.... Shame on them.

Lozzamas not just ignorant but entitled and aggressive.
When disability impacts upon your life - I was aware of how as my children are disabled but it wasn't until I myself started having serious mobility issues a year ago that I knew properly - the 'reasonable adjustments' aren't just appreciated they often mean the difference between going out and not.
The fact that all businesses and services out there have to provide these things is a good thing. What is not so good is that selfish able bodied people do abuse them.

Please note here I'm not talking priority seats - elderly people, young children etc are also listed to use those, but that blue badge bay next to the cash point 'it's just for a minute', the wheelchair bays on buses and trains, hogging the lift (as in actually pushing past wheelchair users to get in when there's a moving escalator right next to it).

Society as a whole is getting more selfish and the sense of entitlement so great that those who these adjustments were made for often face abuse and intimidation for daring to need them. Oh, and suspicion for 'faking it'.

People may not see this post as relevant - again - (funny how posts by disabled posters on what it's really like are always dismissed) but it may just be behind why the OP's DC was chosen as the least threatening option.

OP you are NOT that unreasonable. I can't believe the amount of vitriol you're receiving on here, from other mothers no less...
I never post/comment on here but people on here got me so cross I had to reset my password in order to add my thoughts.
Because I know what it's like. Sadly my 4 year old school is a bus journey away and close to our town centre so buses are always packed on the way home. Little one is very small for his age and really can't handle standing among loads of adults and rowdy teenagers while trying to hold on. He is also autistic and it sends him into overload especially if he can't get a seat. If there's only one free I will stand and let him sit and I always get older people asking for his seat. I will usually get him up but if I see someone who appears able bodied close by I will ask then if they can give up their seat instead. Because if it were ME who were disabled, I would not be asking a preschooler to get up for me I'd ask someone who looks like they can stand unaided. Priority seats are for those LESS ABLE TO STAND that's what it says on the signage, and kids under 5 clearly fit that description. Everyone crying about OP not saying something till after, have you never been in an argument or predicament and afterwards thought "oh cr** I should have said that" I completely understand why you would have done that. No one is perfect and even disabled people can be horrible people. He shouldn't have picked on a small child for a seat. People are actually saying he might have been scared to ask an potentially able bodied person- that makes it alright to pick on a little kid? A tiny kid isn't completely able bodied. So good on the dad for saying something too and please do not beat yourself up. Travelling on public transport with a little one is extremely stressful.
Final note, there are some horrific bullies on here! It's like a playground, are you sure you're all grown women?!

'People are actually saying he might have been scared to ask an potentially able bodied person- that makes it alright to pick on a little kid?'

Yes exactly! The man is an adult and has to push through the discomfort of asking an adult instead of the kid.

You were NOT unreasonable at all - the man who asked you to move your son should have approached one of the young people who were firmly sitting| A hard stare is sometimes enough to shame a sitter into action but mostly they sit there, looking straight ahead.

Discomfort? Really?

Have you been in the situation where you have been in significant pain, had to ask for assistance only to be ignored, sneered at, or worse told to fuck off, or even worse physically harmed?

It happens with frightening regularity and its increased significantly since 2010. Just do a search on disability hate crime. It's every single day for people with disabilities. There are too many posters on this thread recounting problems already.

Oh, and children not being fully able bodied - try having a child who has not been able to cope without wheels since birth and is now almost 8.

I hate it when people liken having young children to being disabled. I've done both - my boys were 14 months apart in age. It's not even close.

SarfEast that is outrageous. What a horrible man. I bet he'd been looking forward to using his pathetic punchline.

Thanks Majestic - a lady said to me as I got off, "that was nice what you did, he's obviously an arsehole!" which cheered me up. I guess what shocked me was that he obviously liked kids or he wouldn't have smiled at her at the beginning, and that he was wearing a silk scarf cravat so I assumed he was European and maybe didn't know about priority seats. He did reply in a French accent too. I guess I assumed that well turned out young European man would have manners. But instead his first response was to be a sexist git. Still makes me cross.

Oh bless you Jesse. Don't be silly. We're all human. We all have crappy days, and more than that, we all have moments where we act in what we think is the right way, and then reassess later. It's all so much easier to make a decision on how to act, five hours later, with a cup of tea in hand.

Bishop - yes, you are talking about personal struggles and discomfort beyond the bus scenario.

I am talking about the discomfort of speaking up on a bus. In my opinion if we need a seat - we ask an adult for their seat - not a 3 year old child, even if that feels uncomfortable.

Good old m
So the disabeld person is in the wrong
Because they asked a child to move
Who as far as i can make out was not. Disabeld
Just a child
For fucks sake i wish people who think being disabeld would spend a day in my workd or bishops
Then you would just say ok no problem
But no the op child, who is not disabled is a victim
The op poop thing was only stepping up
No she was horrid and made a disabled persons day a little bit more shit

Well done op

He didnt pick on the kid. He asked the kid to move out of the priority seating. People in that age group expect to be seated over a child.

Samcro

In my opinion the person with disabilities was in the wrong for asking a 3 year old to vacate. He should have asked an adult for their seat.

I don't agree the OP was horrid. I would have done the same and spoken up for the safety of my 3 year old who I would not want standing in the bus aisle.