About this situation with a friend? How would you deal with it?

[bakeofffan]

We've been friends for a long time, over 20 years.

In that time she's always been very clear that she wanted children.

She has had several relationships in this time, and told me (with at least 2 of them) that she was trying for a baby. However nothing happened. In her early 30s she had about 6 months with no period, then a very heavy period- she went to her GP who said it might have been a miscarriage. However, no further investigations were suggested. Her relationship with that partner ended a few months later (unrelated reasons) and she was single then for a while.

Fast forward 10 years. She's 44 next month. Has been married for 3 years to her DH. He has always said he wanted DC but didn't feel they were 'ready' until about 6 months ago.

We were exchanging messages last week (planning to meet for her birthday) and she said as nothing's happened she is going to visit her GP, and ask for fertility testing, and about IVF. I said I wasn't sure if she would get IVF due to age...she got quite annoyed about that, how unfair it would be etc. Anyway I calmed the situation saying I was sure her GP would clarify the situation. She went away happy - but was still very much of the view that it wouldn't be too late for her, and even if she couldn't conceive naturally there would be IVF (they wouldn't be able to pay privately).

I'm quite concerned she'll see the GP and be told her chances are minimal (surely they must be at her age?), and she won't get IVF on the NHS, and what the fallout from that will be. She tends to think in quite a linear way (others have noticed this and suggested she may have some AS traits, I don't know enough about AS to say that, but she doesn't think of things in the round, or of any 'what ifs' usually) and I know hasn't thought 'what if I never have a baby?' because she's always just assumed she would. Appreciate that sounds naïve but I know her well enough to know that's her thinking.

The other thing is I'm not sure that even if a baby was possible, that her and her DH would cope with one. They are both hoarders (him more so) and there is little spare space in their house. Financially things are pretty tight too. Neither has any family to support them. And of course they'd be pensioners before any DC left school.

I don't want to give her false hope. Also even if it's not false, I really am not sure how they'd manage. Having a baby in their current housing situation with their finances would be hard in your 20s, but surely much worse in your 40s?

Do none of you have long term close friends where you talk about all sorts of stuff and value you their opinion. Or really good friends who can tell you if you are being ridiculous or brilliant or a giant arse wipe and know that they are being kind by being honest with you because they value you as a person.

I know I do. And it goes both ways.

I can't even imagine having someone I actually considered to be a friend feel that they couldn't be judgemental about something serious and important if they had serious and valid concerns. someone who was an acquaintance yes but a friend no.

My closest friend in the world a few years back had a really bad time,she was not looking after her kids or her self because she was seriously mentally ill, should I have just said "cant comment on that due to boundries it's not my place" or should I have done what I actually did which was take her kids (with consent of her and children's services) until family was able to care for them and support her throughout the process of obtaining help and then getting her kids back inc speaking to doctors and attending cp meetings.

Sad that some would consider that over invested or a personality fault of mine rather than the actions of a worried and loved friend.

It's not necessarily harder for 40+ women to get pregnant - it's harder to stay pregnant.

Yes, stop. She had been 16 when she had her first, a little girl, who sadly died of Spanish Flu when she was 2. She did not remarry until she was 30, then went on to have 5 more children. I won't lie, she was a large woman, and when her period went walkabouts, thought, 'Yay, that's it!' She was about 6 months pregnant when it was discovered, she was pregnant. She gave birth at home, as she did with all her children, she was a lay midwife. But it is extraordinarily rare.

It's not necessarily harder for 40+ women to get pregnant - it's harder to stay pregnant

It's both, actually.

It wasn't by choice, but I had DD1 at 44 and DD2 at 46, both through IVF with donated eggs after nearly 8 yrs of TTC and a couple of failed IVF attempts. It's quite possible to be parents of young kids in your 40s but very tiring - but I think it's tiring for any age! Unlikely she'll get IVF on the NHS at 44, I was 39 when we started and we had to pay for all our attempts. If she's always assumed that she'll have children, it will be a big disappointment for her to find that she can't (or at least not funded by NHS), so as her friend the best thing you can do is to be there as a shoulder to cry on - assuming you want to remain her friend and support her in this way.

Sock, there's a huge difference between intervening to support the actual neglected children of a friend with actual serious MH problems and the OP worrying about a set of largely hypothetical or mutually-contradictory scenarios - I mean, she is simultaneously worrying about the friend (a) dealing with never having a child yet also (b) what kind of parent she would be (c) whether she could afford a child and (d) that friend and her DH 'would be pensioners before this [hypothetical] child left school'.

That's the mental movement of someone who is over-invested in being the 'fixer' of the friendship.

EachToHerOwn... What a lovely- reasonable- response, in contrast to some of the judgmental bullshit you read on these threads. I'm not sure I can handle reading the crap people spout any longer- as a parting shot I'd like to say that everyone's situation is complex and leaping in to judge on the basis of very little information might make you feel better but is actually toxic and unpleasant for the Mumsnet community as a whole.

Really don't understand where you're getting all this judgement from, Jones, because people have pointed out that this person's chances of falling pregnant naturally are slim to none and that even with IVF she'd need donor eggs, as Each had. No one slated egg donation, either (egg donors have to be 35 or under for biological reasons). People have just stated that biology works against female conception in the mid-40s. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about the fact that most women that age cannot have a healthy full-term child naturally, it's the exception rather than the rule, and all the 'parting shots' in the world won't change that.

I had my first child at 44, followed by twins at 45 and fourth child just before my 47th birthday. None were expected. I had always been told that I couldn't have children. We tried for 9 years including four failed rounds of IVF before accepted the facts and statistics (i.e. it wasn't going to happen), and gave up when I was 41. Two years later found out that I had conceived naturally and had a healthy boy. When he was 8 months old, found out I was pregnant again (despite the pill) and had twin boys. Switched to a different pill, even though doctors said I had almost zero chance of conceiving again (haha), and at 46 what I thought was the menopause (at last) turned out to be son number 4. I'm now 49 and keeping my legs crossed!

I have never got involved with anyone's fertility issues apart from in a good luck way and being a sympathetic ear . Though some people have become totally irrational. .I have known women who have had real struggles. One has been tryng for 10 years and is close to 40 now poor woman has had 7 miscarriages.

Thats fantastic for you, lovemylife, but it is the fertility equivalent of being hit by a meteorite while walking down the street. Twice.

Sorry, three times!