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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About this situation with a friend? How would you deal with it?

162 replies

bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 14:19

We've been friends for a long time, over 20 years.

In that time she's always been very clear that she wanted children.

She has had several relationships in this time, and told me (with at least 2 of them) that she was trying for a baby. However nothing happened. In her early 30s she had about 6 months with no period, then a very heavy period- she went to her GP who said it might have been a miscarriage. However, no further investigations were suggested. Her relationship with that partner ended a few months later (unrelated reasons) and she was single then for a while.

Fast forward 10 years. She's 44 next month. Has been married for 3 years to her DH. He has always said he wanted DC but didn't feel they were 'ready' until about 6 months ago.

We were exchanging messages last week (planning to meet for her birthday) and she said as nothing's happened she is going to visit her GP, and ask for fertility testing, and about IVF. I said I wasn't sure if she would get IVF due to age...she got quite annoyed about that, how unfair it would be etc. Anyway I calmed the situation saying I was sure her GP would clarify the situation. She went away happy - but was still very much of the view that it wouldn't be too late for her, and even if she couldn't conceive naturally there would be IVF (they wouldn't be able to pay privately).

I'm quite concerned she'll see the GP and be told her chances are minimal (surely they must be at her age?), and she won't get IVF on the NHS, and what the fallout from that will be. She tends to think in quite a linear way (others have noticed this and suggested she may have some AS traits, I don't know enough about AS to say that, but she doesn't think of things in the round, or of any 'what ifs' usually) and I know hasn't thought 'what if I never have a baby?' because she's always just assumed she would. Appreciate that sounds naïve but I know her well enough to know that's her thinking.

The other thing is I'm not sure that even if a baby was possible, that her and her DH would cope with one. They are both hoarders (him more so) and there is little spare space in their house. Financially things are pretty tight too. Neither has any family to support them. And of course they'd be pensioners before any DC left school.

I don't want to give her false hope. Also even if it's not false, I really am not sure how they'd manage. Having a baby in their current housing situation with their finances would be hard in your 20s, but surely much worse in your 40s?

OP posts:
Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 15:01

Her husband I should say is about 5 years older than her. It was him saying he wasn't ready - she's been happy to have a child for at least 15 years (as mentioned, was TTC with previous partners).

I'm really hoping she gets clear sensible advice from her GP.

OP posts:
FlipperSkipper · 31/03/2016 15:03

I really feel for your friend, but she won't get ivf on the NHS. The upper age limit is 42, and many CCGs will only fund up to age 37 or 39.

tiktok · 31/03/2016 15:04

I wonder what planet he's been on, then!

BitchyComment · 31/03/2016 15:20

I don't think you should be saying anything very much apart from showing a bit of interest and some sympathy. I would try not to get involved.

She has her husband now so you can step back.

TippyTappyLappyToppy · 31/03/2016 15:20

Also what planet she's been on, if she's been ready for a baby for 15 years and all this is news to her! You'd think if she's been keen to get going for years she'd have a had a bit of an inkling about all this wouldn't you? Confused

MetalMidget · 31/03/2016 15:22

Waiting to TTC was a huge mistake, imo. I'm pretty sure that the upper age limit for IVF is 40?

Depends on the local CCG. NICE guidelines put the limit at 43 years, but CCGs are often stricter than that - but it varies. Much in the same way some CCGs won't offer IVF to couples where either partner has children, or will have variable BMI limits. Normally they won't go over 42, as the chance of it ending in a live birth drops to 5% (drops to under 2% for women over 44).

I'm not sure I would have given that info to a friend though, I think I would have just wished them luck and left it to the GP.

Nicky333 · 31/03/2016 15:23

The upper limit for IVF on the NHS is 38 in my area. The GP is likely to be very honest about that, as it's the guidelines of the local CCG.

imwithspud · 31/03/2016 15:23

I agree it's not really any of your business, especially your comments in regards as to how they'd cope as parents. Most parents don't have a clue until they actually have children and then they adapt and manage accordingly.

I would let her get on with it and be supportive regardless of what road she chooses to go down.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 31/03/2016 15:26

She's clearly not been listening to Women's Hour either. Barely a week goes by without someone pontificating about when women should have babies and how. Very reflective of the weekend supplements ime too.

Egg freezing/surrogacy/Kirstie Blooming Allsopp all getting news and media coverage recently.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 31/03/2016 15:32

You sound a bit bossy and general manager of the universey. There's nothing you can or should do-you've already said too much-and you just like talking about it. So being so patronising and maybe she will stop feeling like she needs your input regarding her personal decisions.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 31/03/2016 15:33

stop

Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 15:33

She's been keen to have a baby, and was trying with previous partner. Then was single, in a couple of shorter relationships. She's been with her DH for about 5-6 years. Initially they agreed not to try until after they got married, then he said he wasn't ready, until recently. So she's gone along with what he wanted really.

I didn't tell her she wouldn't get IVF, I said I wasn't sure (that's a lie, because I was pretty sure she wouldn't get it over 40). Someone at work had told her she should ask about IVf. I was just gently trying to say she might not get it...

OP posts:
Booboostwo · 31/03/2016 15:35

If she really wanted to know her chances of being offered IVF she could have googled it in five minutes. This will not end well, I would stay well out of it and let her GP explain things to her.

Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 15:39

In what way am I being patronising gonetosea? I don't think I am in the slightest. Concerned, definitely. Especially given that I have had to support her in the past through difficult times. I have seen the current situation approaching inevitably for the last 6 years.

OP posts:
Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 15:40

She's never mentioned IVF before this recent conversation with a colleague, I think she's always assumed/hoped it would happen naturally.

OP posts:
SylviaWrath · 31/03/2016 15:41

She's 44 years old, has never been pregnant and can't afford private IVF. To be blunt; her chances of having a baby are about the same as her getting hit by lightning, if that good. I wouldn't bother spending time wondering about her possible parenting.

sonjadog · 31/03/2016 15:42

Back off and let her find things out herself. Your role is to be supportive, that's all. Maybe she will get pregnant or maybe she won't. It isn't any of your business. Great that you have supported her in the past but now she has a husband and they are making decisions about their family life, and their decisions are not anything you need to be involved in.

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2016 15:43

This marriage won't last if you are the one she is talking to.

You 'advising her' is only going to contribute to it failing.

She should be discussing things of this nature primarily with her husband not you. You should not really be part of the equation at all.

The fact you are is telling.

Even though she is your friend, I would refuse to discuss it with her. She is not 'fully invested' in the relationship. Only the potential baby at the end of it.

I would keep out as much as humanly possible.

MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 31/03/2016 15:43

Your friend is not coming across as a woman who has really really wanted children for a long time. Someone who did would probably have been more clued up. So, quite possibly she will adjust to all the bad news to come better than you think.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 31/03/2016 15:45

You're talking about her as if she's incapable of making her own decisions, seeing any of the issues you see, and generally and managing on her own two feet. She may have benefited from your help in the past but will actually do better if you step back and observe some boundaries. By assuming she's incapable in the way that you're doing, you could actually be sabotaging her ability to manage for herself and make her own decisions. I don't believe any potential baby needs you to consider this situation with such alarm because neither parent is capable of thinking things through. Step back. Unless you're enjoying the drama and don't want to, in which case work away...

SlimCheesy · 31/03/2016 15:51

I agree itis not your role to be making decisions for her, to tell her what her decisions should be or to piss on her chips. if she is under some sort of medical care then she will have medical professionals telling her what she needs to know.

She is an adult. You make it sound like you have some sort of parental responsibility for her, rather than that she is a grown friend of adult age.

Maybe - hopefully- things will work out for her. Most people are totally unprepared for the reality of being parents. They usually manage to get on with it.

Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 15:56

She doesn't see any of the issues - or certainly she didn't. I think she is beginning to; certainly 3 years ago she wouldn't have gone to GP to discuss fertility, so she is starting to think about it, albeit possibly too late in the day. She's not been to a GP at all for about 8 years so won't have had any medical advice in that time.

I appreciate that she should discuss issues with her DH, however from what is said/what I've observed, they don't seem to have that sort of relationship (rightly or wrongly - it's their relationship, and she's happy, so I can't tell her what she should discuss with him).

OP posts:
SlimCheesy · 31/03/2016 15:59

Okay. So just keep out of it. You seem to know the ins and outs of it all anyway. I am sure you will be told the outcome.

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2016 16:01

Yes, but even if she doesn't see the issues and she doesn't discuss it with her DH does not make it your job to.

Its not your business to get involved. Your ONLY role should be a supportive one after she has gone through the 'right' process otherwise you will do more harm than good in infantilising her. SHE needs to work out HER life, not you manage her life.

Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 16:02

to add, in the past I've let her get on with things. Another friend and I helped her many years ago when she needed to get a loan for a car (not giving her the money, but to understand terms, get the best deal etc). I stepped back after that because she was living with a partner. She spoke to him about finances, not me. As a result she ended up owing more than 5x her annual salary when they split up (as he left her with his debts, as well as hers/joint). And then of course we had to help her sort out that mess. So I'm not always hovering over her as a parent, but there is a history there.

OP posts: