About this situation with a friend? How would you deal with it?

[bakeofffan]

We've been friends for a long time, over 20 years.

In that time she's always been very clear that she wanted children.

She has had several relationships in this time, and told me (with at least 2 of them) that she was trying for a baby. However nothing happened. In her early 30s she had about 6 months with no period, then a very heavy period- she went to her GP who said it might have been a miscarriage. However, no further investigations were suggested. Her relationship with that partner ended a few months later (unrelated reasons) and she was single then for a while.

Fast forward 10 years. She's 44 next month. Has been married for 3 years to her DH. He has always said he wanted DC but didn't feel they were 'ready' until about 6 months ago.

We were exchanging messages last week (planning to meet for her birthday) and she said as nothing's happened she is going to visit her GP, and ask for fertility testing, and about IVF. I said I wasn't sure if she would get IVF due to age...she got quite annoyed about that, how unfair it would be etc. Anyway I calmed the situation saying I was sure her GP would clarify the situation. She went away happy - but was still very much of the view that it wouldn't be too late for her, and even if she couldn't conceive naturally there would be IVF (they wouldn't be able to pay privately).

I'm quite concerned she'll see the GP and be told her chances are minimal (surely they must be at her age?), and she won't get IVF on the NHS, and what the fallout from that will be. She tends to think in quite a linear way (others have noticed this and suggested she may have some AS traits, I don't know enough about AS to say that, but she doesn't think of things in the round, or of any 'what ifs' usually) and I know hasn't thought 'what if I never have a baby?' because she's always just assumed she would. Appreciate that sounds naïve but I know her well enough to know that's her thinking.

The other thing is I'm not sure that even if a baby was possible, that her and her DH would cope with one. They are both hoarders (him more so) and there is little spare space in their house. Financially things are pretty tight too. Neither has any family to support them. And of course they'd be pensioners before any DC left school.

I don't want to give her false hope. Also even if it's not false, I really am not sure how they'd manage. Having a baby in their current housing situation with their finances would be hard in your 20s, but surely much worse in your 40s?

Anyway, you don't need to say anything or give an opinion. You just need to listen

Just listen and support her as much as you can. That's all she needs.

If she is lucky enough to get pregnant, they may cope a lot better than you think. I was vaguely worried about two of my friends who had babies later in life (to do with finances, health, etc) but you'd be surprised how much new parents can adapt and get on with it, when the baby is wanted.

IMO anyone who says they don't have opinions about their friends' lives/decisions/things that they do etc is lying. It's just that the OP has made her views publically known, whereas most people would inwardly think/perhaps utter to their DH "bloody hell, she's a bit naive if she thinks she's not left it to start trying for a baby at 44 and thinks she has a chance of actually having one."

Tbh I would have said to her "well yes, at 40 and over you are possibly leaving it too late to have a baby, but see what the GP says."And yes, if she was someone who had a bad track-record with money and had previously wanted me to help bail her out I would absolutely be discouraging her from getting into debt for IVF which is highly unlikely to result in a baby.

Tbh though I would be concerned re the fact that none of you have ever seen the inside of her house, more so because you say this has only been the case since she's been with her current dh, and that he himself has no family or friends. What do you know about him? Is it possible she's in an abusive relationship?

Oh my goodness, you make her life sound absolutely awful

... lots of failed relationships, with whom she wanted children ... no children ... a DH who made her wait for 3 years ... 44 ... likely to need IVF ... likely to be turned down for IVF ... too poor to afford IVF privately ... she and her DH are possible incapable of housing and bringing up DC anyway, due to things such as hoarding ...incapable of managing her own finances ... is a pretty average performer ... no family support ... actually no support of any kind, because her DH isn't really bothered ...

but at least she's got you and clearly trusts you!

You have spelled out her life in quite a lot of detail on here. Let's hope she doesn't recognise herself, because she will perhaps realise just how negatively you really view her.

I don't think he's abusive as such. It's his house, she moved in there about a year before she got married. I think she was the only person who'd seen the inside of his house in many years. He's a very reclusive, introverted person, and I think he doesn't like visitors, so wouldn't encourage her to bring people round. And she seems embarrassed by the mess/ clutter (which I guess he's used to as it's only ever been him living there).

'I know loads of people who have babies well into their 40's '

Really? I'm 45 and am pretty sure it's impossible for me to have any more (not that I want and DH had the snip). I've known lots who were in their early 40s, but 44+? Not unless there was egg donation.

I've got two DCs: DC1 at 40 and DC2 at 43. Several MCs to get there, lots of tears, but we did. And it happened naturally. DC2 was conceived first month we tried. Despite our advanced years. And we adore them, and are not crippled with exhaustion and other myths.

I'm just saying.

These stats are bloody hard to hear when you're TTC so I'm putting this out there for those of you who are lurking and feeling utterly flayed by this thread (as I would have). Not everyone waits until they're 'ready' later in life. And they all cling to hope despite the stats. I know lots of people who only met their partners much later.

It is not utterly impossible.

BIG difference between 40 and 44+, tbh, hence why you'd be very hard pressed to find even a private clinic who would treat trying to use the woman's own eggs past the age of 43 unless she had some previously frozen at a younger age. And it's a fact the risk of genetic abnormalities is much, much higher. It's just the way it is biologically, particularly women. The chance of conceiving naturally at 44/45 and having a full-term child with no genetic abnormalities are vanishingly slim.

Cakey, lovely, encouraging story :)

Yes, it happens. It is far less likely to happen with the obstetric and menstrual history of the OP's friend, who maybe should have sought advice on it before reaching the age of 44....I think that's what ppl are saying.

True, tiktok. Some of us are very happy that's so, too . Imagine if we just went on being at constant risk of pregnancy and birth which, until recently, killed many woman. Perimenopause is a bitch, but ah, I for one am looking forward to being past the menopause. Yikes at the thought of being pregnant at 45! My gran had a healthy son 2 months before she turned 48, but he was her 7th child and she had born her first at 16.

I really feel for the friend if she has always wanted children :( don't understand her burying her head though....

OP just be neutral and supportive. Or withdraw, sounds like you don't get much from the friendship.

Agree with expat and tbh while women do conceive over the age of 40/45, the reality is that the woman who conceives naturally at 43 is lucky as opposed to the woman who does not being unlucky - iyswim.

It's not a myth that conception over the age of 40 is unlikely - it's a fact.

It's a bit like the people who say to someone who has struggled for years with infertility "oh, my cousin's best friend's uncle's stepdaughter had this problem, then they decided to stop trying, booked a holiday and before she knew it she was pregnant. If anything those kinds of stories give false hope to women who are never likely to conceive.

not really your place to say...but i do think highly unlikely she would get IVF on NHS

I've got two DCs: DC1 at 40 and DC2 at 43. Several MCs to get there, lots of tears, but we did. And it happened naturally. DC2 was conceived first month we tried. Despite our advanced years. And we adore them, and are not crippled with exhaustion

Thats lovely for you. But you were 40, not 44, having dc1. And the OP's friend has other relevant factors too.

I think on matters such as fertility, whether to have children, when, how many and so forth, the least said the better, where friends are concerned.

You sound worried she can't have children and worried if she did. Don't worry about her, you aren't her mother!

I would just concentrate on being a good listener. It's not your job to inform her of her risks or whether she would be a good parent. It doesn't sound like it will happen anyway, just be there to listen when she needs it (and back off if you don't want to get too involved).

The 'fall out' can only have as much effect on your life as you allow it to. But you do seem to be rather enjoying this worrying.

If she doesn't understand appropriate help in future, send her back to the person in question, if necessary asking her permission to make a phone call to the relevant phone call as her informal advocate, in which you say nothing more than 'please go over this again and make sure she understands/is supported to do it.

Doubtless you will be on hand to alert social services if you feel it's necessary in the future.

relevant person

Op it really is none of your buisness. Just nod and smile and be sympathetic when needed. If you feel your giving to much then back away from her. And it really isn't your place to be interpreting what you think her GP might have said.

I'm pregnant with my 3rd IVF pregnancy and classed as an 'older mum' one of my oldest friends tried telling me about my chances ect.. When Ive been living and breathing IVF for four years - my DGM told me I may have a disabled child because of the procedure I had. every one thinks there are a bloody consultant these days!

Just nod and smile.

I do have friends who had babies at 42 and 45 (two sons) and another one 45. Both felt very lucky.

You'd have to be very cut off from society to not know the stats. They're everywhere. And I'm not disputing them.

But what exactly does it achieve by telling a women TTC late in life that she barely has a chance and her child may have genetic abnormalities?

She will know that already and she will also know that there are exceptions, and she will be hoping like hell that she is one of the lucky ones.

We were facing IVF at 39 and I was distressed and asked the consultant if I'd ever be a mum. He looked me straight in the eye and said, 'I'll be honest, you might not be'.

It didn't stop me trying and thank god I didn't, because I was naturally pregnant with DD a month later.

It was the hope against the odds that got me there, not the stats that I was fully aware were stacked against me.

Why would anyone feel it's doing good to take that away from a friend TTC?

HER specific reality will dawn one day, and she will deal with it then: either a BFP or realising it will never be. You have no idea what HER reality will be, regardless of the stats.

'She will know that already and she will also know that there are exceptions, and she will be hoping like hell that she is one of the lucky ones. '

This person obviously hasn't and even thought she had years left and that IVF will be the solution. And she's 44. I mean, c'mon.

UK clinics won't do IVF using own eggs on women over 43, with exception of eggs that were frozen earlier. Again, if I were the OP, I'd have just said, 'Yeah, yeah, see the GP' and let them break it to her.

HUGE difference between 39 and 44.

I'd be worried her DH has tricked her into this marriage, delaying 'trying' until he knows she's too old for fertility treatment, and then pretending he wants to try.

aye I see where you're coming from.

Honestly, I don't think having children has the same importance for him - I suspect if last year she'd said she was quite happy with their life and didn't want to try for a baby, he'd have been happy - possibly even relieved.

To be honest I think they both should have had a proper cards on the table discussion long ago, before they got married, but neither is the kind of person to do so.

Hopefully the GP will give some clear, honest advice, which she'll take on board. Not to say I don't hope it will happen for her (I do, because she's a friend and it's what she really wants) but pinning hopes on IVF which isn't available in her age group isn't going to help.

I had a similar situation - it was kind of worse as she had a terminal illness

I said nothing and the situation - well let's say it resolved itself

Op it's worth thinking why you are so bothered and worried - I think you have her interests at heart but as said upstream you don't paint that great a picture

Time to distance yourself , you k ow beSt but worth thinking about your intentions here