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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About this situation with a friend? How would you deal with it?

162 replies

bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 14:19

We've been friends for a long time, over 20 years.

In that time she's always been very clear that she wanted children.

She has had several relationships in this time, and told me (with at least 2 of them) that she was trying for a baby. However nothing happened. In her early 30s she had about 6 months with no period, then a very heavy period- she went to her GP who said it might have been a miscarriage. However, no further investigations were suggested. Her relationship with that partner ended a few months later (unrelated reasons) and she was single then for a while.

Fast forward 10 years. She's 44 next month. Has been married for 3 years to her DH. He has always said he wanted DC but didn't feel they were 'ready' until about 6 months ago.

We were exchanging messages last week (planning to meet for her birthday) and she said as nothing's happened she is going to visit her GP, and ask for fertility testing, and about IVF. I said I wasn't sure if she would get IVF due to age...she got quite annoyed about that, how unfair it would be etc. Anyway I calmed the situation saying I was sure her GP would clarify the situation. She went away happy - but was still very much of the view that it wouldn't be too late for her, and even if she couldn't conceive naturally there would be IVF (they wouldn't be able to pay privately).

I'm quite concerned she'll see the GP and be told her chances are minimal (surely they must be at her age?), and she won't get IVF on the NHS, and what the fallout from that will be. She tends to think in quite a linear way (others have noticed this and suggested she may have some AS traits, I don't know enough about AS to say that, but she doesn't think of things in the round, or of any 'what ifs' usually) and I know hasn't thought 'what if I never have a baby?' because she's always just assumed she would. Appreciate that sounds naïve but I know her well enough to know that's her thinking.

The other thing is I'm not sure that even if a baby was possible, that her and her DH would cope with one. They are both hoarders (him more so) and there is little spare space in their house. Financially things are pretty tight too. Neither has any family to support them. And of course they'd be pensioners before any DC left school.

I don't want to give her false hope. Also even if it's not false, I really am not sure how they'd manage. Having a baby in their current housing situation with their finances would be hard in your 20s, but surely much worse in your 40s?

OP posts:
Alasalas2 · 31/03/2016 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

totalrecall1 · 31/03/2016 23:03

My brothers wife is in a similar situation. Went to the GP and I was expecting him to say odds are against you etc, instead she came out with a big grin saying Dr had said she has as much chance as anyone else. Still don't understand that after everything I have read, but point is don't rely on the doctor to give her the full low down!!

Imonlydancing · 31/03/2016 23:09

I understand how friends who have been in your life for so many years can seem like a sister and you might say things that normally would seem intrusive or crossing a line. I would say to my best friend of 25 years that IVF might not be an option (in a very gentle way of course) but I definitely wouldn't to a friend I am not so close to.

If she has tried for 15 years previously with no luck, it sounds as though she has other issues. I had PCOS and had no periods for a year before I conceived. I couldn't have IVF due to my other DC - I never expected it anyway tbh, I am just shy of 40 - but the PCOS treatment worked and I fell after one month. So while IVF may not be an option, she may have other avenues.

Talk to her after the GP visit instead of worrying about it now. It isn't essentially your problem to handle but I can see how you would want to minimise her hurt should the doc not see eye to eye with her plan.

The house is none of your business though. Sorry.

Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 23:29

total yes, although I'm hoping GP will advise her clearly if he/she just says no to IVF (which friend hadn't really thought about anyway) but to keep trying, then I expect her to react similarly to your SIL...

She hasn't tried continuously over 15 years, but certainly it must be a number of years in total with her DH and XP (iirc in a previous relationship they didn't use any contraception for 2-3 years) I don't think she has any issues like PCOS or anything; she's never had any investigations, and from what she's told me, other than the 6 months mentioned in my OP, and times when she's been on the Pill, she's had a really regular cycle since she was a teenager.

I don't care about the house, in as much as it doesn't bother me if I can't go there. It possibly would be an issue if she got pregnant though (not for me, but because she'd need to have midwife, HV etc visiting) but I suppose at that point they'd have to sort it out.

OP posts:
Original poster
bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 23:38

Re a PP, I don't think I've made her life sound awful - I don't think of her as having an awful life, I am conscious she may not (if babies don't happen) have the life she'd hoped for, which is a shame, but then many of us don't have lives that turn out as we expect (me included).

She's had more than one relationship, I think that's pretty normal of someone who didn't get married til their 40s. I certainly don't judge, and mentioned it only to make it clear she's not been waiting to start a family til she met her DH she'd tried before. My comment about education was because someone suggested upthread she might have some LD - she doesn't, she's not a brain surgeon admittedly, just pretty middle of the road educationally, like most people. She doesn't have any family still living unfortunately (not unheard of for someone in their 40s), and that's just factual, not me putting her down, more explaining why her family weren't there to support her in difficult times. Not trying to be mean about her at all. She's my friend!

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 31/03/2016 23:43

A doctor advised a 44 year old that she had as much chance of conceiving as anybody else, totalrecall?? As you sure she understood correctly and he didn't say as much as any other 44 year old?

Because the former is pretty unbelievable.

Cagliostro · 31/03/2016 23:50

I think no matter what you feel it's not really wise to say anything. She will be finding out regardless, there's no point in risking your friendship

aurynne · 01/04/2016 02:24

A friend of mine was 46 and had just got married to "the man of her dreams" (I won't even start on him...). We were having a conversation and she was excitedly telling me that she finally could try to be a mum, that it had been her life long dream and that she "knew" she was born to be a mum. She mentioned that other people said her fertility would be minimal, but, in her own words, "I look and feel much younger than 46, surely my fertility would be the same".

She does look and act 15 years younger. However, that makes fuck all difference to her eggs, which will be still 46 years old, and to her uterus, which will also be 46 years old. I still chose to keep my mouth shut and not say the obvious. I'd rather leave that to the GP and fertility specialist, because I know that, in these cases, it is the messenger who usually gets killed.

Janecc · 01/04/2016 06:09

You sound like you are very invested in this friend, which is understandable. However I would say over invested. She is lucky to have you as a friend. She seems to be lacking in a lot of life skills, which only she can learn for herself. Tbh she sounds more like a teenager than someone in her mid 40's. I like what PP said about not being the messenger. If she is unlikely to hear what the GP is saying, it would be wise for her to go with her DH. Would you suggest that? As others have said this is none of your business so you may just decide to say nothing, let things happen and deal with the fall out. I would be torn between stepping back to maintain a boundary and going with her to see the gp so that you can ask the appropriate questions on her behalf. DH and I tried to help his cousin for several years and he ended up going completely off the rails and served a short prison sentence. There came a time when we simply walked away because his and his mother's behaviour became totally unacceptable. You will need to search inside you for the answers please just make sure you look after yourself and your family first.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 01/04/2016 06:35

total yes, although I'm hoping GP will advise her clearly if he/she just says no to IVF (which friend hadn't really thought about anyway) but to keep trying, then I expect her to react similarly to your SIL

I don't mean to be rude, but do you have anxiety problems? It sounds like you're now trying to micro-manage the GP who (more likely than not) will be perfectly competent at doing their job Confused. I'm actually not being facetious but it's just struck me after coincidentally speaking to my DH last night about a child patient who's mother has anxiety issues which partly manifest them self like this - he'd just had a double appointment yesterday for this kid do he could go through in minute detail with the mother what he was doing and answer all her questions and assure her that he knew exactly what to do.

Why are you so invested in this? It's really not normal. I know you say that you'll be left "picking up the pieces" but all that requires is to say "Oh dear, that's a pity" and "Why don't you run that past the doctor again" with a suitably sympathetic face. If it all becomes too trying, just wind down how much you see the friend

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 01/04/2016 06:36

whose mother

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 08:05

'Went to the GP and I was expecting him to say odds are against you etc, instead she came out with a big grin saying Dr had said she has as much chance as anyone else.'

Sometimes there's just no talking to the deluded. If someone that old asked me, not a doctor, about how fertile they are having never had any children at all, I'd find it hard not to say something like that.

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 08:08

at that age, I should add.

LaurieFairyCake · 01/04/2016 08:32

"By the time a woman is in her 40's 90% of her eggs are chromosomally abnormal"

Shock another statistic I'm really shocked by.

Maybe the reason your friend is so deluded is she's like me and just doesn't equate the statistics to herself and thinks 'I feel young'.

There's a really blunt paragraph from the fertility doctor who said the above - she also says 'you might feel young but you're not at all'.

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 08:36

It's true, Laurie. Getting pregnant at 44+ with one's own eggs and going to term with a child with no genetic abnormalities is a very rare thing.

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 08:41

For many women, too, natural loss of fertility is a good thing they look forward to.

LaurieFairyCake · 01/04/2016 08:42

Just, wow.

I asked dh yesterday what he thought the chances were of a woman my age having a baby without any intervention and he screwed up his face and said '70%'

He's quite a bit younger and still in the mindset of using contraception Grin
I'm thinking we probably don't really need to bother now

LaurieFairyCake · 01/04/2016 08:44

Agree, it is a good thing for some (including me)

Not loving the lack of hormones in my facial elasticity though - seem to have quite dramatically ages since 43 Hmm

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 09:00

Oh, a lot of men think you can just go on spawning like a 20-year-old till menopause.

I still have spots and I'm 45! DH had the snip when I was 38, though. Bliss for us both.

thebestfurchinchilla · 01/04/2016 09:04

Let her find out from a professional. It's not really your business.

JockTamsonsBairns · 01/04/2016 09:06

I'm also surprised it's that rare. In my friendship circle alone, two of my closest friends had their first Dc's naturally at 42 and 44 - although one had several MC's prior to conception. My mum's friend conceived naturally at 45 - a lovely surprise after many years of ttc. This was way back in the 80s.

I'm 43 and still using contraception, had a mishap a few weeks ago and went to the GP for the morning after pill, which she prescribed without question. I'm happily looking forward to not having to bother with contraception but, on the experiences of my friends, I don't think I'll be chancing it just yet.

green18 · 01/04/2016 09:08

I think this is the reality these days. I am 45, I feel about 30 and sometimes am shocked when I see the increase in grey hair year on year and the new lines on my face. I think of my mum at 45 and it was very different for her. I am very glad I have teenagers and am not trying to start a family now.

green18 · 01/04/2016 09:15

What I mean is that I echo what pp have said. These days 40 somethings are still going on nights out with their girlfriends, dressing in the latest fashions etc. My mum would have been knitting and going to her WI even though she was a stylish and modern mum, it was just the times, 70s and 80s. But just because we feel young, our bodies are not!

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 09:21

Very rare age 44+, particularly with a first. You'd be surprised how many use egg donors, too.

Jonesey1972 · 01/04/2016 11:03

Bloody hell, how judgmental! Perhaps these people are waiting until they're sure they're ready before embarking on such a huge step. Which is the opposite of entitled...