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AIBU?

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Original poster

About this situation with a friend? How would you deal with it?

162 replies

bakeofffan · 31/03/2016 14:19

We've been friends for a long time, over 20 years.

In that time she's always been very clear that she wanted children.

She has had several relationships in this time, and told me (with at least 2 of them) that she was trying for a baby. However nothing happened. In her early 30s she had about 6 months with no period, then a very heavy period- she went to her GP who said it might have been a miscarriage. However, no further investigations were suggested. Her relationship with that partner ended a few months later (unrelated reasons) and she was single then for a while.

Fast forward 10 years. She's 44 next month. Has been married for 3 years to her DH. He has always said he wanted DC but didn't feel they were 'ready' until about 6 months ago.

We were exchanging messages last week (planning to meet for her birthday) and she said as nothing's happened she is going to visit her GP, and ask for fertility testing, and about IVF. I said I wasn't sure if she would get IVF due to age...she got quite annoyed about that, how unfair it would be etc. Anyway I calmed the situation saying I was sure her GP would clarify the situation. She went away happy - but was still very much of the view that it wouldn't be too late for her, and even if she couldn't conceive naturally there would be IVF (they wouldn't be able to pay privately).

I'm quite concerned she'll see the GP and be told her chances are minimal (surely they must be at her age?), and she won't get IVF on the NHS, and what the fallout from that will be. She tends to think in quite a linear way (others have noticed this and suggested she may have some AS traits, I don't know enough about AS to say that, but she doesn't think of things in the round, or of any 'what ifs' usually) and I know hasn't thought 'what if I never have a baby?' because she's always just assumed she would. Appreciate that sounds naïve but I know her well enough to know that's her thinking.

The other thing is I'm not sure that even if a baby was possible, that her and her DH would cope with one. They are both hoarders (him more so) and there is little spare space in their house. Financially things are pretty tight too. Neither has any family to support them. And of course they'd be pensioners before any DC left school.

I don't want to give her false hope. Also even if it's not false, I really am not sure how they'd manage. Having a baby in their current housing situation with their finances would be hard in your 20s, but surely much worse in your 40s?

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 01/04/2016 11:09

I always through that having a 3rd/4th child was more feasible at this age than having a first one? mayber I comp0letely made that up.

I do feel for my friend that are (a) my age and speak of having a child. I don't think they get it and I keep my thoughts to myself

I am fucking tired, I would die of exhaustion if I had a new-born now

Floggingmolly · 01/04/2016 11:12

But the point is that you can't wait until 44 to decide that you're "ready" without completely decimating your chances of it happening at all, Jonesy.
Surely that's obvious?

SylviaWrath · 01/04/2016 11:17

Bloody hell, how judgmental! Perhaps these people are waiting until they're sure they're ready before embarking on such a huge step

In this case, ready is far too late. It's like trying to start a race when the other runners have all gone home and the finishing tape has been taken down.
It's not judgement, its biology. Your eggs don't care when you are ready.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 01/04/2016 11:20

Jonesey1972

given your age Grin you should realise its old eggs, not being judgey!

people can rant all they like but its biology

FfionFlorist · 01/04/2016 11:33

Most posters have advised you to avoid talking about this her OP, but your recent posts show you are still over invested, please back away on this topic. Many women can't assess the realities of fertility properly, it's a natural protection mechanism. Let the professionals and her dh help her come to terms with her chances. On this subject, be a friend, and just say nothing.

glowfrog · 01/04/2016 11:36

Sorry to miss the point but how can you be without a period for 6 months and not check whether you're pregnant?? Did you ever suggest to her she see a GP etc? Or did she not tell you until after the fact?

StitchesInTime · 01/04/2016 11:41

Jonesy

It's not about being judgmental. It's about acknowledging - whether you like it or not - that a woman's chances of falling pregnant and having a baby, even with IVF, are very slim by the time they reach 44 years.

Waiting until you're completely "ready" can sometimes mean missing out altogether. But I would guess that most women in their 30's and early 40's are aware of that.

Teddy1970 · 01/04/2016 11:54

I think it's wrong to assume that as soon as you hit the big 40 your baby making days are over, this is not true at all, I've been through IVF 3 times now (due to Male factor) and one thing the fertility Drs have told me is that a woman's fertility is a very individual thing, you can have a woman aged 29 who has difficulty in conceiving or a woman aged 42 who falls pregnant at the drop of a hat ( my mother had my sister at 46!) Generally though, as a rule, fertility does decline with age but there are exceptions to this.

SylviaWrath · 01/04/2016 12:09

Nobody did assume that. What they did say was that at 44, if you have tried unsuccessfully to get pregnant for years in your younger years, couldn't afford IVF, have a dh who isn't even that bothered.....its not going to happen, is it? Simple logic.

Of course there are exceptions, but that is what they are. We all know someone who had a baby at 48 or whatever, but the very fact you remark upon it is it because it is so unusual.

miaowli · 01/04/2016 12:16

It is difficult not to micro -manage friends'/relatives' problems, if they put you in that position, which sounds to be the case with your friend.

If it turns out that surrogacy is one of the options open to her, please don't feel tempted to offer.

thebestfurchinchilla · 01/04/2016 12:16

Your baby making days aren't over in your 40s but it is a lot harder. My cousin has just had her first at 43 after trying since she was 34 and 7 miscarriages. Baby is well and healthy. Obviously she would rather have got pregnant in her 30s.

expatinscotland · 01/04/2016 12:19

The OP is 44, not 40, and the chances of a 42-year-old conceiving and carrying to full-term a child with no genetic abnormalities are going to be much slimmer than a 29-year-old woman's. Fertility declines with age. Not impossible until the menopause, but certainly not as likely and again, ovarian reserves age with you. The quality of my 45-year-old eggs is not going to be comparable to a 29-year-olds, hence, why I am not eligible to donate eggs or for IVF using my own eggs (if I had wanted to, which I don't).

My gran had a healthy son at 47. That is the extreme exception. She certainly didn't expect it (she thought she was having menopause).

jennyblonde82 · 01/04/2016 12:45

I think it's nice of you to be concerned for your friend, but you need to step aside and let her find this out for herself. It's not your job to pick up pieces or give her information about her chances. Focus on doing something positive to develop your own life and leave her to make her own mistakes.

Alidoll · 01/04/2016 12:48

I have a friend that's had multiple miscarriages, IVF, the works and is now 45 but still hoping. Realistically it's unlikely she'll be a mum but that is for the consultant to tell her - not me. Technology moves on and perhaps she may be lucky so I wish her well and tell her I'm thinking of her.

However, she's paying privately for the treatment which at the age of 45 is likely to be the only way your friend would have the chance. Fertility drops off rapidly after the age of 40 and while yes there are mums out there with kids in their 40s, most of them would likely have had help to achieve that (or had previous successful pregnancy). If she's had issues in the past with her menstral cycle (6 months without a period and she didn't have a basic pregnancy test or any investigation into early menopause then it's unlikely they will refer for IVF if the chances of harvesting eggs are extremely low even if she's paying privately).

While this sounds harsh, a lot of people think IVF is the miracle cure but for a lot of couples it isn't and after failed attempts, a lot of money and heartache, they are still a couple.

So yes, be prepared for tears and how life is so unfair etc but let the consultant be the one to break the news and be there with the hankies to listen only.

Puppymouse · 01/04/2016 12:58

I have no clue why you are fretting about this so much. It is absolutely, categorically, none of your business. If she chooses to talk to you about it, just listen and let her and her DH deal with their own lives.

kumamon · 01/04/2016 12:59

This poor woman.

Someone up thread said I hope she doesn't recognise herself. I hope no one else recognises her either. OP you are on here providing information in great detail on the finances, menstruation cycle, home life, relationships past and present, job situation, holidays and more of someone who I assume doesn't realise her life is being dissected, discussed and rubbished in public like this.

Back the hell away and be supportive, regardless of what happens to her. This is not what 'providing input' looks like.

Jonesey1972 · 01/04/2016 13:07

Sorry- I don't think I was very clear. Of course there are barriers to women getting pregnant in their early 40s, however I was responding to this:

Well anyone who gets married at 41 and then waits to TTC for 3 years because they or their partner 'isn't ready' is a bit of an entitled idiot if you ask me. IVF on the NHS isn't just there for people who wanted a few extra holidays and a couple more promotions at work before they started a family.

I think the assumption that women wait to try for a baby because they want more holidays or promotions is just foul. My point was, given that the couple had only just married, perhaps they felt they needed their relationship to develop before embarking on parenthood and surely that's responsible rather than entitled?

SylviaWrath · 01/04/2016 13:12

Its responsible, but its also very silly. And if you did expect to be able to wait to 44 and then be given free nhs IVF, I think entitled would be an adequate term, wouldn't it?
But you wouldn't get it anyway, so its a moot point.

UpsiLondoes · 01/04/2016 13:28

Where did she get the idea she could have IVF on the NHS at her age? If her thinking in very linear then surely the first Google you do on NHS IVF brings up
[[http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/IVF/Pages/Availability.
----/
Women aged 40 to 42
The NICE guidelines also say that women aged 40 to 42 should be offered one cycle of IVF on the NHS if all of the following four criteria are met:

they've been trying to get pregnant through regular unprotected sex for two years, or haven't been able to get pregnant after 12 cycles of artificial insemination

they've never had IVF treatment before

they show no evidence of low ovarian reserve (where eggs in your ovaries are low in number or quality)

they have been informed of the additional implications of IVF and pregnancy at this age

Again, if tests show that IVF is the only treatment likely to help you get pregnant, you should be referred for IVF straight away.
----/

She and her husband may be well aware of the criteria already as it's pretty transparent.

Zucker · 01/04/2016 13:47

I think in a friendship people can fall into a role. Your's has been the fixer/rescuer OP. Unfortunately it's probably time for you to change your role to listener. The fixing and saving can't go on indefinitely can it?

ProphetOfDoom · 01/04/2016 13:47

I've just turned 44 - so no need for contraception any more?

(Sorry, this isn't the point of the thread but I've just read the stats)

SylviaWrath · 01/04/2016 13:49

Not unless you want to risk a pregnancy, Prophet. Did the stats you read say its completely impossible to get pregnant at 44?

ProphetOfDoom · 01/04/2016 13:56

OP, I think you're getting a harsh ride here, you love your friend, you're concerned for her and you want to protect her. Your one of life's fixers if it's in your power to do so rather then just a friend who says 'there there'. But as I think you know this is one problem you can't fix and your role here IS just be sympathetic and listen. What she does about this is down to her and DH - and you can't make up for any deficit he may have. The GP is the one to convey the message and if your friend chooses to hear it or not, that is up to her. And I know plenty of people who don't choose to hear what they're told.

ProphetOfDoom · 01/04/2016 14:06

Think I misread the stats as it combined medical intervention data too. - it's possible to GET pregnant still but the chance of staying pregnant or the embryo not having abnormalities is low. So contraception firmly continues!

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 01/04/2016 15:04

My gran had a healthy son at 47

OMG!!!!