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AIBU?

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Lahore bombing - where is Christian god?

332 replies

lulucappuccino · 28/03/2016 14:16

Ok, I know this is a very clichéd question, but 70+ people, mainly children, brutally murdered at a Christian, Easter celebration.

Families gone. Lives shattered. Unbearable pain.

WHY would god allow this?

Aibu to think this sort of thing proves there is no Christian god. Or if there is, "he's" not a good force?

OP posts:
Eustace2016 · 29/03/2016 09:23

Thankfully more people now don't believe in God than do in the UK and the trend will continue. However as long as people's religious beliefs don't harm the rest of us most of us are happy to let people believe whatever they choose. We are a pretty tolerant country although I am sure the time will come when religion will be removed from state schools.

All the main religions are pretty good at explaining why mankind suffers on earth. However we atheists and those who are Christian and any other religion certainly need to try to do our bit to ensure people are not killed, in any context, in any place and to try to imbue our sons (it is usually boys not girls who bomb and fight although I know there are exceptions) with the values that it is not a treat idea to go around killing other people.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 09:29

It's not 'my' article, and out was about killings perpetrated by, rather than in the name of.

But as regards the second world war, hitler said in mein kampf 'by defending myself against the jew, I am fighting for the work of the lord'. I feel that's quite telling, don't you?

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 09:39

So if we should focus on the wrongs of Islam now, were you debating the settings of Christianity when people were massacred by Christians in the central African republic in 2014?

Probably not, because you probably weren't aware of it. Because then, as now, the media focus is on Islam.

Did the media portray Christianity itself as a threat when Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured 600 more in Oklahoma in 1995?

Nope, thought not.

InisSunset · 29/03/2016 09:41

Why Eustace do you think it will benefit everyone for more and more people to not believe in God? What harm are these believers doing to the world. Are these believers some kind of threat to everyone. There are people who believe and people who don't believe, and the majority of believers just get on with their lives in a quiet peaceful manner. You make them sound like they're a separate species.

The facts are though that it is Christian aid groups who are doing more than any other religion to bring relief to all the trouble spots in the world.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 29/03/2016 09:42

If you think Hitler was acting out of Christian belief then you really are completely deluded. There's enough that can be put at Christianity's door without inventing more. And it does make me think there's rather more than just the rational thinking that herecome is so very keen on.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 09:49

Whatsthat, EXACTLY RIGHT!! BINGO!!!

there's a difference between acting in the name of, and following the belief system. Why can people see that when it comes to Christianity, but can't when it comes to Islam?

Colchestergal · 29/03/2016 09:53

Blue moon - no!! You are wrong. WW2 was not a Christian war. FACT

InisSunset · 29/03/2016 09:56

Bluemoon the biggest threat to the world today is Islam. Plucking random (and rare in comparison) atrocities that have been committed in the name of Christianity won't change that. It's childish to deny it.

Sallyingforth · 29/03/2016 10:02

Suggesting that Hitler acted for Christianity is just crazy. He wanted to wipe out Jews, and used any excuse to do so.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 10:03

Colchestergal, anyone can say anything they like and say it's a fact. FACT

Iris.

You are wrong.

The biggest threat is not Islam. The vast majority of Muslims are no threat to anyone.

Radical Islamists, Jihadists etc - they are a threat. But you know something else? They kill more Muslims than they do any other religion.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 10:05

Sallyingforth, you get it too! I hope you transfer your point of view to the Muslim community.

herecomethepotatoes · 29/03/2016 10:12

If you think Hitler was acting out of Christian belief then you really are completely deluded. There's enough that can be put at Christianity's door without inventing more. And it does make me think there's rather more than just the rational thinking that herecome is so very keen on.

But the issue is that if anyone were to live their life according to the bible's teachings, they would actually be a despicable person. The bible is certainly not a basis for a good and moral life and nor is the god about whom it's written. The same can be said for most (certainly the main) religions. The old testament is appalling but so is the new, "With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful in heaven into holy war on earth." The Quoran is terrible too.

Religion is not a force for good. It creates an in group and an out group and is used for control. Anything which creates a 'them' and an 'us' is awful and the sooner it is gone the better.

You are right though insomuch as clarity of thinking is something to which we should all aspire and religion only clouds that. If we can be good without the fear of big brother watching us, then we are truly good people.

Inis- believers hold back science, they brain wash children and they teach their children that non-believers are going to hell. That is very damaging and a sick way of viewing society.

How can you be so hypocritical as to mention the majority of believers 'getting on with their lives' yet at the same time proclaim Islam is the biggest threat in the world today. Not "some Muslims" or "terrorists", but 'Islam'?

whatsthat - I am certainly not likening Hitler to a lot of Christians, but most of what he did seems entirely compatible with Christianity and Islam.

"The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O believer! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslims are deluded but the vast majority are not a threat to the world.
Christians are deluded but the vast majority are not a threat to the world.
...
Atheists are not deluded and the vast majority are not a threat to the world.

My final point is we are all the same. Religion tells people we're all different. It is backwards and dangerous. Realising that your god is made-up bull shit is quite the relief!

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 10:20

Iris

The facts are though that it is Christian aid groups who are doing more than any other religion to bring relief to all the trouble spots in the world.

Are christian aid groups doing more than non-religious groups? If so, can you give me some evidence. If not, then what does that say about the non-religious?

Pangurban1 · 29/03/2016 10:25

There are no 'Gods' or 'Goddesses'. I don't think people claim that the bible was written by a God. Certainly not the new testament. The claim that the koran was written by a God through a man is more to do with mans charlatan tendencies and snake oil salesman selling their invented religions, in my opinion.

I think I'll write a bookie by a 'Goddie' saying everything I want and do is good an proper and everyone else is evil and must die and how to kill them. That is what the inventors of religions got away with in aeons past.

Does the new testament say certain people must die and how to kill them? It is second hand though and doesn't pretend it is written a God or Goddess, so any God directive to murder is not from the horses mouth, so to speak. Unlike the mega and unbelievable (to me, but I am not brainwashed) claim of the very human author of 'Le Koran'.

It is no different from the aztecs sacrificing people for their god with certain methods. Anyone saying their 'Goddie' says to murder other people for certain reasons and how to do so is simply a murderer. People who do so are protecting their interests or brainwashed. There should be no enabling in pretending it is mandated by a 'God' or 'Goddess'.

So there is no God (Christian or otherwise), but there were simply Christians who were out in a park who were killed by a mass murderer. That mass murderer had been taught/brainwashed to believe he/she was killing to please or at the behest of a Muslim God, who does not exist either.

Pangurban1 · 29/03/2016 10:28

Timothy McVeigh was an anti federal government terrorist. His motivation wasn't a desire to kill people of a certain religion or carrying out a mandate from his religious bookie. His beef was the Big Government.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 10:35

As I said, I was referring to terrorism/killings carried out by christians vs muslims - NOT in the name of. There is a distinct difference.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 29/03/2016 11:24

herecome, you are a fundamentalist, and are arguing against a caricature of religion. There is no point trying to explain to you what people believe, because you've already decided for them.

Sallyingforth · 29/03/2016 11:57

whatsthat - I am certainly not likening Hitler to a lot of Christians, but most of what he did seems entirely compatible with Christianity and Islam.

I'm not aware of any radical Christian group going round killing Jews or Muslims. Do you have any evidence for this, or are you just being obtuse?

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 12:01

Sallyingforth, here's one example that I have mentioned already in this thread.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka

herecomethepotatoes · 29/03/2016 12:32

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

I also quoted scripture.

"The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O believer! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Sallyingforth · 29/03/2016 13:04

Rising
You found one.
It's very sad, but you will admit it is very rare compared to the everyday killings of Christians happening now in the Middle East.

potatoes
I also quoted scripture.
The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews

What's your point here? That's a quote from a Muslim hadith.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 13:22

Sallying - I didn't 'find' one. If I was to go looking, I could mention more, but that is the one that I remember the name of (and have to go googling for).

Are you aware that the 'everyday killing of christians' is actually less of a problem that the 'everyday killing' of muslims by muslims that is happening now in the Middle East?

Does that diminish the Christian deaths? No. But neither does it diminish the Muslim deaths at the hands of Muslims.

Are ANY of these killers representative of the majority of the followers of their faith? I would say no.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 29/03/2016 13:33

The anti-balaka started as an uprising against the muslim Seleka militia, which had also committed horrendous atrocities. It is part of an horrific civil war, with an ethnic, religious and colonial background.

BlueMoonRising · 29/03/2016 13:35

Yeah, and the West hasn't started any wars in the Middle East recently.

Oh wait...

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 29/03/2016 13:37

God doesn't stop people hurting others God does not control the actions of humans

many will find comfort in God when they are suffering

this neither proves or disproves there is a God/s

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