Is having overweight kids child abuse?

[Mummyme1987]

A friend posted on Fb that parents with fat kids are child abusers. Except for kids with medical problems. It started with comments on how it's awful that there's a generous fit section in clothes shops. I'm shocked that people think this. I think the majority of parents don't just feed their kids crap, and some kids are bigger than others, and unless it is a very extreme case it's not child abuse. Thoughts?

One of the reasons why weight as generally rising is a good one - fewer people smoke. I don't suppose we have ever previously known a society where so many people had enough to eat, and so few people smoke.

Absolutely HowBad re. capitalism. Ppl up in Salford had to live on sandwiches and takeaways while having their homes ripped to pieces around them in a so called refit. This went on for months. Carillion Amey have left forces families for MONTHS without cookers. Have a look at their twitter feed and in the twitter search engine.

Bad that's not a very good thing when the lack of smoking is accompanied by a rise in drinking and in diagnoses of obesity related illnesses though is it.

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2406

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2390

Measuring/weighing children twice at primary school (if the parents agree) and/or ad hoc referrals through safeguarding do not offer a framework for routinely screening families of obese children for potential abuse. A system that tried to do that would be fraught with difficulties.

If a teacher notices a child's weight is causing difficulties and/or health problems they should treat it as they would any sort of neglect. Doctors should be doing the same as when they see a child who they think is being abused. We don't turn a blind eye to kids being neglected because it's difficult. Or least we shouldn't be. It should be (and believe it is) treated in the same way professionals should treat any situation where they think a child is being neglected.

Fascinating how invested so many of you are in being angry at people for being fat. So much time has been spent so indignantly on this thread. Why?

No one is angry. We are discussing it. Who are you to judge how we spend our time or what we discuss? It's a messaging board. We are using it for its purpose.

I find the cries on this thread of people being judgmental, claiming people have said all parents of overweight children are abusive, exactly the same as calling this discussion fat shaming. Pretty ridiculous. Weight should not be something that we can't discuss. That's not helping anyone.

helena everyone already agreed that the Salford situation is not acceptable. But it's not to blame for so many kids being overweight.

Being against Health At Every Size is not fat shaming however I can see why youd say that, you do it to shut down any narrative that you find uncomfortable. A bit like you probably claim people are fat phobic if they have frank discussions regarding obesity. It all plays into the 'I'm not comfortable so let's shut this down by claiming prejudice'.

Good luck teaching kids that it doesn't matter what size they are. I'll be the one getting them through grueling hip and knee replacements by the time they're forty. Or depending on if I'm back on cardiology I might be treating them for CHD. because whether you like it or not the size of someone is VERY telling and you've denied it's not an indicator of present or future problems when it really, really is.

"Weight should not be something that we can't discuss. That's not helping anyone."

Do you understand the link to the research above that shows that discussing weight and implying that people are fat puts psychological pressure on them that causes them to eat more?

I don't think many on this thread do understand this point. Being delicate about people being overweight is not like saying "oh he beats his kids but I'd hate to upset anyone so I won't mention it."

It's more like considering a work performance review, thinking "where there are errors of judgement, it's always to do with with a response to stress; so I'm going to think carefully about how to manage this, because if I start implying his work is not up to scratch and increase the stress then he'll find it even harder not to make these errors of judgement."

In that case, if I were the manager I would think:

• are the errors of judgment so bad I want to manage him out? (most parents are not so bad their children would be better in care, so in most cases the answer to this would be "no")

• so if not, how do I support him to manage stress better?

• part of this may be looking at whether he is actually under intolerable stress due to the circumstances of his job. Maybe there is something I can do about the stress itself and not just his response to it.

In the case of rising obesity I think we have to look at things on this systemic level - why so much pressure to be fat? - because it is increasing on a societal level. If it were a matter of the occasional individual being unable to resist cream cakes, then it would be the same as always. But as it is not the occasional individual, then we have to ask "why is the pressure to eat so intense?"

There are many answers to this. But this whole question is a logical nonsense unless you address it at that level.

By definition it is the fact that it is so widespread that has people so concerned.

So please be clever about how this concern is expressed. Weighing and sighing and tutting and showing charts and so on makes people fatter. It is part of the pressure of modern obesogenic late capitalism not an opposition to it

I am not uncomfortable discussing weight or admitting that people are getting bigger. I am disturbed by the pitchforky counter productive "common sense" attitudes that are making it worse

"because whether you like it or not the size of someone is VERY telling and you've denied it's not an indicator of present or future problems when it really, really is."

Grey you sound like a medical person, so surely you do know the difference between correlation and causation?

If my DCs were overweight Id change their diet subtly and find fun activities we could do together as well as seperately. I wouldn't necessarily talk to them about weight tho - its a sensitive subject and I wouldn't want them to feel bad about themselves. Also don't believe in rigid dieting for children, in fact not even adults. Im sure many overweight children do feel bad about themselves and wonder how much that is taken into account

In the West its easy to eat far too much as a matter of course. People will talk around the houses come up with all sorts of excuses and "everyone's" got a medical condition. Its never gluttony, or in the case of a child, parent aiming to actually care enough to do something about child's weight, as opposed to "caring" by giving them sweets and fattening foods as treats, or incentive to be good, learn more etc. Or even not being into healthy food or exercise as a parent, so not really bothering with that aspect of life and health re. child. Easier to keep with the big eat and treats and not think about it

As for "not enough info out there, parents need help". I don't buy into that at all, you get health info thrown at you here, even if you never read a book or magazine and only watched TV or surfed the net, you'd find info. That is, if you want to. Its easy to avoid what you don't want to see and continue with excuses isn't it?

All I see is a load of contrived excuses and in 10 or so years time, obesity related medical issues manifesting at a younger age, which is a real shame

Do you understand the link to the research above that shows that discussing weight and implying that people are fat puts psychological pressure on them that causes them to eat more?

So let's ignore it. No one ever mention weight incase someone thinks someone is implying they are fat? Avoiding the issue is wrong. Being afraid to talk about health and weight is not the way to go.

What is ever solved by people ignoring it til it goes away?

Being against Health At Every Size is not fat shaming however I can see why youd say that, you do it to shut down any narrative that you find uncomfortable. A bit like you probably claim people are fat phobic if they have frank discussions regarding obesity. It all plays into the 'I'm not comfortable so let's shut this down by claiming prejudice'.

Agree completely with this

Totally agree - this is a serious health issue not to be ignored, celebrated or excused.

Overweight kids usually grow up to be overweight adults. I'm sick of hearing oh my DC is big boned/ big string lad/ loved his food/ cuddly. No your DC is overweight and you need to act now or they will face a lifetime of consequences.

*strong

I have read bits of this thread but not all. This struck me though:

Do you understand the link to the research above that shows that discussing weight and implying that people are fat puts psychological pressure on them that causes them to eat more?

This is about children though, not adults. As a parent you have a responsibility to feed your children and keep them healthy. Up until a certain age there is no need to discuss it, they don't have the same psychological issues that adults do. And if they do then they need to be resolved (and the reasons why need to really be looked at). However , you, as the parent, are still in control of their diet not them so there doesn't need to be any discussion about being fat. There just needs to be an education process.

Yearly weighing and measuring from birth and discussing with the child/parents about exercise, fitness and good nutrition can stop the child from getting fat in the first place making the fat shaming issue non-existent. Childhood obesity can be tackled, as I showed in my link earlier, it takes society and individuals though. There's no point just moaning about how difficult it is to lead healthy lifestyles, its time to hassle the Government to put into place positive policies that have been tried already and proven to work and time as individuals to make healthy choices for our families.

Can I just explain one more time about "health at every size" before I leave the thread.
the point of it is not to celebrate being fat. (Some fat activists do celebrate being fat - they can if they want - this is not a core part of HAES.)

the point of it is to separate a person's weight from their attitudes to lifestyle. So, whatever their weight, everyone is encouraged to exercise in a way that is healthy for the person, and to eat well in a way that is focused on health and nutrition.

The difficulties with the very tight and wrong-headed association between a person's size and their treatment by HCPs, and their own treatment of themselves are as follows:

• it puts off healthy behaviours to some magical future where the person is slim. (This future may never happen.*) the person is trapped in a cycle of self punishment. The healthiest way to be is to start now, make changes now and behave like a slim person - as if you deserve health - even if you are not slim. Eg: would a slim person sign up to a class they fancy? Would a slim person buy a swimming costume and go to the pool? Would a slim person cook interesting and seasonal food based around vegetables and fruits with flavour? Would a slim person go out to a dinner party and eat everything moderately and not eat two helpings of pudding because "I'm fat anyway"? yes yes yes and yes. SO CAN ANYONE.

• * many people will not lose weight long term by following traditional dieting behaviours. So putting off healthy behaviours till you are slim, is often putting them off for ever.

• traditional dieting can be very unhealthy. It is bad for physical health and mental health to run at a constant deficit of nutrients. The dieting mentality encourages crap substitutions instead of healthy moderate eating. a slice of brown bread, gram for gram, contains more calories than a slice of white bread. Aspartame contains fewer calories than the natural sugar in an apple or a carrot. This is a shit way to live.

• Therefore HAES separates weight loss from general health in order to open up a route to healthy behaviours to a group of people who would otherwise never be able to access them

Agree with Howbad - 'Health At Every Size' is not shorthand for 'Every Size is Healthy', it's for 'You can have a healthy lifestyle no matter what size you are'. I know I have been guilty of the mindset of 'there's no point me doing X, Y or Z because I'm fat anyway'.

Isn't inactivity more harmful to health than obesity anyway? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30812439

So yes, it probably would be better never to mention people's weight, and instead encourage them to take more exercise.

Grays , do you think the woman in that 'weights' meme you posted looks healthy? It's hard to tell because of the angle, but I'd say she has 10-15% body fat, which is too low really. And there's no way those are her natural boobs

(I hang out at a pretty hardcore gym and see a lot of lean people, M and F)

So you're telling me howbad that medical science is wrong, obesity doesn't lead to health problems? You're also trying to tell me that obesity is not on the whole caused by lifestyle choices? You might want to believe that because it's comforting to you but for the rest of society it's damaging.

boulevard that wasn't why I posted that photo. It was to show attitudes when presented with a slim body.

And I can't ignore weight when working in orthopaedics. Not when I know for every excess pound you're carrying youre putting an added 4lbs on your joints. Not when I know your symptoms will either be relieved or completely disappear when you lose weight. But tell you what I'll dodge the elephant in the room.

Oh for goodness sake, of course she looks healthy

It was to show attitudes when presented with a slim body.

Attitudes which Boulevard has just displayed too. Slim woman = cries of "she's not healthy, she must have a body fat % that's too low, she must have fake boobs".

Not much better than all the "she looks like a man, she'll never be able to have children, who'd want to have sex with that, women should have curves".

If 64% of UK adults were like her, rather than being overweight or obese, I'm pretty sure the NHS wouldn't be in the state it is.

This to me is a very clear example of the sort of wrong thinking that is cripping our approach to this:

"Bad that's [fall in smoking] not a very good thing when the lack of smoking is accompanied by a rise in drinking and in diagnoses of obesity related illnesses though is it."

What a profoundly stupid post. Of course is a good thing that smoking is in decline. Not-smoking is IN NO WAY associated with health risks. No slim smoker was ever advised by their doctor to keep doing it, in case they get fatter. Yes, most people who stop smoking will put on weight (temporarily or permanently) but they will still, all things being equal, be healthier.

The fashionable demonising of fatness, in the guise of concern trolling, causes nonsense like this. Go to the dr, if you need to lose a couple of stone and don't smoke, and ask their advice about taking up smoking as an appetite suppressant, and see what they say. Just try it.

The germ of truth here that some are so unwilling to see is that some things are unhealthier than being fat, depending on how you got fat.

And here I get to Grey:

"depending on how you got fat" is a key bit of my post above, for you.

If you are in orthopedics I can see why the absolute weight of people is a huge issue in your line of work. but it isn't the be all and end all.

How you got fat and how you get slimmer is related to a variety of lifestyle factors which in themselves have a huge impact on your overall health, far more than the weight itself.

this is not a tricky concept but - as with the smoking nonsense above - many people seem to be struggling with it.

"You might want to believe that because it's comforting to you"
Please stop making these mad assumptions about some sort of denial that I am in, or what is comforting for me. You don't know anything about me and you seem to be unable to read that I do not deny that obseogenic factors in society are a huge thing for public health and happiness. you are just entirely wrong about what these factors are and what to do about them.

Now: how you got fat.

A 14 stone person who eats 17 MacDonalds meals a week, packaged snacks, never walks or runs or swims, works at a desk, commutes by car, whose main hobbies are TV, smoking and the pub, and who has no pets or children to take to the park - that person has a lot of problems and is probably storing up more for the future. I would actually suggest that that person's size is the least of his / her problems.

This is completely different from a 14 stone person with a childminding business, who is out and about chasing pre-schoolers at the park every day, who cooks 3 meals a day, eats all the fruits and vegetables in sight, but tends to overdo the potatoes at the end of a knackering day.

fashionable fat-fear guff conflates the two.

In the case of the 14 stone childminder, I would say that hectoring her to lose weight without looking at what is positive in her lifestyle is possibly counter productive. If you cut her calories to 1500 a day she may not be able to remain as active; will change her habits to accommodate a need to "diet"; hunger will have a negative effect on her energy levels and mental health; she may well lose important nutrients if she is being steered towards low-fat packaged foods. If you blood pressure, lipids, etc are all fine; if her joints are fine; if she is busy and happy and things are working for her; then it's a case of "aint broke, don't fix it". Who cares if a healthy active person is wearing a size 18 / 20?
On the other hand - it's too late. She's been got to already by our fat conscious culture. She has probably already yo yo dieted, to the detriment of her metabolism; dabbled with stupid high sugar fads like juicing; drinks diet coke; has a seam of self-loathing that is lurking waiting to be exploited by the diet industry.