To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

The easiest way to prevent somebody from attending a funeral is to not let them know that it is happening. Funerals vary so much (as can be seen from this thread), and there is no legal requirement to make them inclusive or public, or even have a funeral service or ceremony at all. Funerals can also take place on private land.

While you can't stop anybody from grieving or mourning, the family are under no obligation to hold a funeral that is the focus for everyone's grieving and mourning. While it's true that funerals are very often events where everyone is welcome, there is no requirement for that to be the case.

Whilst I think DN and his wife should respect your Dad's wishes I do wonder if he and your Mum were being a little naive if it's simply because they don't want the children to be upset. Of course they're going to be upset, whether they go to the funeral or not, someone they love has died.

My DD has been to 2 funerals. The first, my grandads, when she was a baby at my Mums request. We sat at the back in case we needed to leave and tend to her. Having a cuddle during the service was a huge comfort to me and to my Mum and other mourners after the service. Not sure whether my Grandad would have thought it a good idea for her to be there, but am sure he'd have been glad if he could have seen her there.

The other was trickier. My Mums DP was diagnosed with terminal cancer and died at home a month or two later. My Mums initial instinct was that maybe DD, then 4, should maybe not witness anything to save her from upset, but that didn't feel right she loved her Grandad and would be bewildered and upset to not see her grandparents for a couple of months then it suddenly be just her grandmother. We did a lot of research, explained it bluntly, let her ask her questions and it brought comfort to all involved for her still to visit. She chose to go to the funeral and i'm glad she got to say goodbye. She talks fondly of grandad, that she went to the funeral to say goodbye and is sad that he's not here because she loved him. She behaved well at the funeral and hugely inappropriately at the wake - laughing, playing, running around or in other words exactly what my Mum needed from her!

Whilst DN and his wife's initial reaction wasn't a credit to them i'm not sure what she could say to your message. While obviously well meant it's not as simple as her thanking you as she most likely knows you haven't had a change of heart and that all the family are still upset with her so possibly leaving it to DN to reply.

My kids were 3 and 6 when my mum died, they weren't upset ( they didn't come to the funeral) - some kids might be drpending in the relationship etc - but for some it can not mean that much at that age.

I'm really sorry to gear aboit your mum but I'm afraid I do think YABU. Well, not unreasonable exactly but maybe just getting hung up on the wrong things. You are probably experiencing intense grief right now and sometimes it's easy to become fixated on a side issue as a way to distract yourself. If these are even reasonably well behaved children then I don't think they will disrupt the service. You will probably be completely engulfed in the service itself and won't even notice that they are there. My personal view is that the issue of bringing children to a funeral or not should be left to their parents (as long as they aren't very naughty and disruptive kids). Did your mum categorically say that she wouldn't want her great grandchildren to be there or are you assuming that's the case? For what it's worth, I wouldn't make a big deal of it. You have enough on your plate as it is without getting into an argument. I don't think it will matter to you on the day. In my experience, funerals are completely draining and you're not able to really focus on anything. Good luck with it all and look after yourself

Sorry for your loss. I understand how you feel about the children. They are not immediate family as great grandchildren. My children didn't attend my father's funeral aged 1 and 2 and a half. My partner stayed with them at my parents' house and brought them to the wake, where they really lightened the mood. I didn't want them upset at the funeral and I wanted to focus on supporting my mum. They should understand and not put more pressure on you at such a difficult time.

3 and 6 are still pretty little too understand why all the adults are crying.

*hear about (sorry, fat thumbs)

Sorry, I think I didn't express what I was feeling very well. Actually I completly agree with MrsDeVere that those closest to the deceased come first. And anyone who is going to start a fight, turn up dead drunk or whatever and actually increase the pain of the day , through their own behaviour, can reap what they sowed as far as I'm concerned.
But outside that sort of really painful decision, how far do you take it? So far on this thread we've been discussing a small child level of disruption, and a lot of posts have said that the chief morner gets to decide. I don't want to speculate about the OPs' family, but in this kind of situation, presumably everyone concerned is pretty close to the deceased. So why should the spouses' wish not to see an upset child stop the next generation being comforted by their childs' presence (and it is a comfort usually) or prevent a child from saying goodbye if they wish to?
So yes, I don't feel that being the widow would have given me the right to increase someone elses pain for something fairly minor. I didn't have any crying children- frankly I don't think they would have registered, perhaps there were some- but if a perfectly decorous funeral is important to the family that can be forseen and dealt with fairly easily. Having one's family rejected, which is what something like this can feel like, is a lot harder to get over.

My two grandkids are 5/3 they did not go to grandpas funeral but went to the after wake do and they still dint know when they was there what it was but they know grandpas on the moon looking at them .

MrsDeVere. Good post

YANBU. I don't think a funeral is a place for very young children. It's not about the rights of the children, or educating them, it's about those nearest to the deceased person being able to grieve.

The wake is different and I can see how having the children there would be comforting and provide some relief for everyone. Hope it all goes ok.

All those saying children are part of life etc , YOU have kids at YOUR mum's funeral.
The nephew's wife is being a dick.

This post isn't " should children be allowed at funerals ".

It's a completely different thing. OPs family wishes should be respected.

If they asked for " immediate family members only " and distant friends and relatives showed up that would be exactly analogous to the nephew and his wife bringing their children onset the current circumstances.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Unfortunately in my daughters 7 years she has lost three great grandparents and a great uncle.

She had just turned three when my grandma died. She was upset she had lists of questions about death and dying. I was honest with her and going to the funeral really helped her understand the process.

My grandma had 9 great children who where her world and the church welcomed the children and made them part of the service they all had a job to do.

My DD never made a fuss and all the children helped us to appreciate how she lies on in all of us.

My DD was just turned 7 when my uncle died and she was absolutely certain that she needed to go to the funeral.

On this occasion we left our 20month old at home because she wouldn't have got anything out of the day and it was going to be a long day as it was not close to home.

But when dd2 was 6 months she went to my granddad's funeral because I was breastfeeding.

If at any point my grandma had said I'd rather not have the children there then I would have made other arrangements. But so far it's always been left to my own choice.

If your nephew's partner feels the kids need to be at the funeral, well then in my personal experience I would say they are old enough to attend and behave themselves, if they don't then the parents need to take responsibility for ensuring they have limited impact on the experience for everyone else.

grannytomine I was not talking about the idea that one relative could love another more or less than another relative regardless of their distance in terms of relationship, of course that is possible.

I was talking about the specific case here where the OP has made it very clear she is devastated by her mother's death. I am not sure if you have read all the posts but it is is clear she is very distraught,

In such a circumstance as this I find it very strange to suggest that the deceased woman's grandson may be even more devastated than the woman's own daughter. Yes, it may well be possible in some families. But in the example given here the OP is clearly devastated, she is seeking to support her father, who has lost his life partner. I am afraid I cannot see how a grandson can take precedence over that type of relationship.

Of course we are all entitled to our opinion. You to yours and me to mine. I very much doubt the OP is still reading as she said she was going to stop reading. But she was clearly very upset and distressed (I myself am recently bereaved of a mother too), and in such circumstances it juts seems to me cruel to suggest that someone eles's grief could be deeper than her grief, even if that may be possible. I hope you see what I mean. Maybe my wording was strong but I just felt that when someone is bereaved it is better to be sensitive to them. The nephew is also bereaved but he is not reading this thread (I would presume). I hope that makes sense.

PS I don't think it odd your son chose to be close to his grandma, that is your family story and it is fine for you. I am not suggesting your family situation is odd at all.

MrsDeVere Re "I had the police at my DD's funeral to prevent someone from turning up" I am so sorry to hear that.

paintedorpapered Re "Having one's family rejected, which is what something like this can feel like, is a lot harder to get over."

Who has said any child is rejected? The children were welcomed to the wake and also to plant a tree in their great-grandmother's memory!

I was four when my paternal grandfather died. I'm sixty now. I wanted to go to the funeral to be able to see my grandfather one last time and to say good-bye. I loved him - I was his "princess ". I wasn't allowed to attend because I was "too young". My older brothers attended. I remember it clearly. I understood the idea of death. I never knew my maternal grandmother as she died ten years before I was born. I wonder if these children have been asked if they want/need to go.

I think that you have to be a little careful about always deferring to the closest family member because sometimes in their grief they can say/do some very hurtful things. My mother wanted to exclude a family member at my father's funeral and we had to be quite firm that it wasn't an option at all. It would have caused a huge amount of pain and upset, and in any case was just wrong.

On the other hand sometimes people can be weirdly insensitive, when my MIL died someone who was not closely involved with the family at all (I think a work colleague or similar) kept turning up which really bothered all of the family. She was a bit of a grief hound and seemed to get some sort of odd validation from hanging around. Very odd indeed.

I just can't understand the thinking of some people. What would happen if the children didn't go? I doubt it would have any sort of long term impact on them. It might be a pain to find childcare, or if the worst came to the worst their Mum could take them to a cafe or park for an hour. It might make things a bit tougher on the nephew for the funeral but he'll get through it.

But by kicking off he's now made a tough situation much worse for a lot of people, made the funeral all about this row and his family (rather than the deceased) broken down his familial relationships (for his children too) to a point which may be irreparable. I really cannot see how hurting a recent widow and upsetting your family is worth it.

On the other hand sometimes people can be weirdly insensitive, when my MIL died someone who was not closely involved with the family at all (I think a work colleague or similar) kept turning up which really bothered all of the family. She was a bit of a grief hound and seemed to get some sort of odd validation from hanging around. Very odd indeed.

I was really, really upset by a woman and her child at my MILs wake. It was in the ROI where the wake is pre funeral with the body laid out and the family sat with it while people come to view.

A woman came in who knew her vaguely with a girl of about 8. The child was literally gawping at the body and looking down at it and up at her mother with a look of excited horror. And you could tell that it was all just a bit of a ghoulish thrill to the child and that she was going to go back to school and tell all her friends the gruesome story about the dead body. You could tell the child had absolutely no real understanding that MIL had been a real and very much loved person, no emotional attachment to her. It was a reaction I remember having in the chamber of horrors at Madame Tussaud's as a child. Not appropriate when her family where there grieving. It wasn't the child's fault, but she shouldn't have been brought when she was unable to appreciate the emotions of the day for the relatives.

Afterwards outside her mother was very loudly declaiming how children should be 'exposed to death' and 'experience the process'. But she just seemed to view it all as some kind of convenient learning experience for her child and was very self congratulatory about how modern and open minded she was. But there was just this total disconnect from the day the person was about (the deceased) in her absolute insistence that everywhere should be child friendly and inclusive for the benefit of children without a thought for how this might impact on other people seeing someone they loved very much reduced to something to be gawped at.

Really, if a lack of understanding on the part of children (be that an inability to behave appropriately, sit still or be quiet) is going to distress other people, they just shouldn't be there.

Billsykes

My mum told us she didn't want an open casket where any sid from the street coukd walk in and see her, maybe even someone who hated her or whom she didn't like. Her 2 close friends didn't like this and actually hung about the funeral parlour hoping they would get their chance.

You can tell from a lot of posts on here, Billy, that that is exactly how plenty of adults see funerals.