To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

You have arranged the funeral according to the wishes of your mother, as far as you can be sure, and also for the peace and comfort of yourself and your father. It is wrong and thoughtless of others to insist that they know better, and to attempt to force you into accepting a situation that you don't want . Surely the partner of a nephew is not in a position to insist upon anything when the person being buried is your Mother and not actually a blood relative of hers anyway, however 'close' the family might be. I disagree with those who say it is 'up to the parents' - it isn't . What is 'up to' the mourners is to respect the wishes of the bereaved and act accordingly. Get a babysitter or write a thoughtful letter explaining why you cannot attend, express your happy memories of the deceased, and don't go.

Sadly, you cannot ban children from funerals. I know that because I have buried one and attended the funerals of others.

Death now is not well dealt with because it is unusual now to lose the young or the healthy. It means that people, old, young, middle aged, are not well equipped to deal with bereavement and there is little support for them in society when it happens beyond the parameters of old age.

I do agree the op's wishes should be respected but in this case it means the wife of her nephew cannot attend the funeral and that in turn means the nephew does not have his principle life supporter with him at a time of grief. Perhaps the children could be with their other grandparents; perhaps the other grandparents have a very justified reason for being able to help on that day. It will be a day sad enough without added bitterness.

I know there is a culture of children not attending funerals in some cases and it should be a question of preference of all concerned but I don't think they should be banned. I can understand the bereaved asking the parents to take them out if they holler and even reserving seats for them near the door so they slip out as quickly and quietly as possible.

Years ago I attended the funeral of a mother attended by her six year old son. When we arrived back at the house for the reception the neighbours were hanging off their gate open mouthed and actually asked "they didn't let the boy go did they?". Now that was inappropriate and I'm afraid I did reply "well as you weren't close enough to it really isn't any of your business"

Both of my Granddads died when I was 4-5 and I didnt go to either funeral, and now I'm 19 and still haven't been to a funeral, and even though I've seen them on TV or whatever, I really dread attending them, and have no idea what to expect. My dad has a weird attitude towards death, won't discuss it, doesnt even like the idea of making his will because it is associated with death. I have a fear of dead bodies too, but I don't think it's assosicated with not going to funerals as a child.

I think its at the deceased's immidiates' discretion whether young children attend a funeral. I can see reasons for and against.

Frika that's exactly what I was thinking. This has illustrated to me that there is a huge gulf between my perception of a funeral and what I assume, from this thread, to be the 'English way'. I'd never heard of a Chief mourner before, and have never heard of someone being barred from a funeral, or even being asked not to attend. I've been to funerals where family members who haven't spoken to anyone for thirty years turn up, and no one bats an eyelid about it. Even if everyone hates them, and vice versa, they are expected to show some respect and be there. The only acceptable reason round here for not attending a funeral would be if you were in prison, or your own death bed.

In England would an invitation (verbal, obviously) be needed before it would be acceptable to attend a funeral? Do you have to specifically be asked by the family if you will attend?

I remember a colleague's father dying and another colleague (Irish and only just arrived) immediately asked if we could all go to the funeral together since she wouldn't know her way. She was very surprised that nobody was going to go and thought it normal everyone would be there, if only to support the colleague.

Treacle, it will depend enormously on the community. In the funerals I have had experience of, there has been a 'telephone tree' effect, in which a few key people were rung directly by whoever was dealing with undertakers etc, and then those people rang other people. Sometimes there has been one 'cascade' with information about the death, then a second with details of the funeral. There hasn't, IME, been a single 'inviter' who spoke directly to everyone.

However, in all cases there have also been people from the local community or who knew the deceased 'less directly' - e.g. staff from my grandfather's nursing home; work colleagues; neighbors; fellow members of the church congregation - who have attended the funeral service as well, without any specific contact from the family.

Reading this thread has reinforced my belief that I have wonderful inlaws. When I lost my dear husband, last year, his brothers and sisters waited until I asked for their help and were delighted, if that's the word, to assist in any way. They had wanted to be involved but were afraid of stepping on my toes, even through they were all, 10, every close. I couldn't have got through it without them and they ran every single thing by me, before proceeding. There was only one person, who had married into the family, that caused me distress because they rode rough shaft over my emotions and decisions. They questioned so many things that my husband and I decided before he died, that they made an already distressing time so much worse for our kids and me. I will never forgive them for it and most of the siblings feel the same. A lot of my counselling was taken up with trying to come to terms with this.

So, go on ahead, those that feel their needs come before those of the closest relatives, if you don't care how your decisions can compound the misery and distress of those who already have suffered the lose most deeply.

Beaufort - sadly that attitude from the neighbours doesn't surprise me. My mum was told off by a great aunt at my sister's funeral for taking me and my brother as she should have known it was inappropriate.

I was just thinking another cultural difference in England in my experience is that a lot of people have very small funerals which are one or two family members and then a big memorial service, or a big funeral but a very small burial or cremation service with only closest family members.

There is obviously a huge difference in taking children to a funeral followed by s separate cremation or to a memorial service than there is in taking them to a funeral service at the crematorium.

'Sadly, you cannot ban children from funerals. I know that because I have buried one and attended the funerals of others. '

I have, too. My child was 9 when she died. It was cancer so I have been to many childrens' funerals now as a number of children she was treated with have also died.

You can request/ban, obviously not when the deceased is a child, but no one has the 'right' to attend someone's funeral when they have heard from the deceased closest relatives that they are not welcome at it. The very thought that some people think about their 'right' more than the wishes of the relatives shows just how self-centred some people are.

My daughter's funeral took place some distance from our home but quite a few of her school friends came - they were all about 8 or 9 so not very young.

No one brought young children that I can remember, although there were about 350 there.

I'm so sorry beau and expat for your heart breaking lose.

My children came to my mum's
Funeral. They were 17 months and 4 and a half years.

I wouldn't have dreamt of excluding them.

My reasoning is that I was excluded from my grandpa's pubertal by my mum and nana and I never quite got over the exclusion. It felt like my feelings and love for my grandpa counted for nothing.

Cremation is not common where I live, though gaining. I probably will be.

Do mourners actually watch the coffin roll into the flames?

'Do mourners actually watch the coffin roll into the flames?'

No, the coffin goes behind a curtain and that is the conclusion of the ceremony.

Do mourners actually watch the coffin roll into the flames?

No. It goes behind a curtain then you leave.

No lea. The coffin is on a conveyor belt and at the end of the service it slowly disappears behind a set of curtains. The actual cremation may not happen until some time later.

How interesting, thank you.

I was at expats Dds funeral and I didn't see any very young children . I thought it was lovely that some of her school friends attended , a wonderful tribute to such a special little girl . I hope it has helped them come to terms with their own loss

been a lot of mners up in arms when their dc were not invited to weddings. This is a new low-cc have rights to attend funerals when the family says no??

Well, I said upthread that I feel that there is no option but to respect the widowers wishes, but tbh I am really shocked at the idea of telling anyone that they aren't welcome at a funeral, adult or child. But as this led to a discussion upthread, clearly this must be a cultural thing because to loads of other posters it is very normal that the close family dictate who can attend.

So its not a sense of entitlement in my case, it would just be a total culture clash.

So its not a sense of entitlement in my case, it would just be a total culture clash

Exactly. And I am pretty sure that it is such a culture clash - and perhaps an insecurity in the minds of the grandson and his partner as to how they are seen by the rest of the family - that have been at the root of the OP's issues. It is clear that the OP assumed, when posting on here, that everyone would agree with her, because 'her norm' is that close family dictate who attends funerals. But that is not 'everyone's norm', does not seem to be the grandson's partner's norm That has led to a sad level of upset, and a belief that things have been said / done to cause offence where perhaps - both on the OP and the grandson's partner's part - no offence was intended.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral.

Not going to the funeral will not ensure that the children are not upset. They will be upset anyway because someone they love has died. Attending the funeral will help them to understand the permanence of death and also to understand why their parents are upset. Also it means that they (the immediate family of the children) can talk about it afterwards and it isn't something they need to be frightened of. As a Macmillan nurse we would always encourage inclusion and honesty in an appropriate way in the belief that it helps in the long run in adjusting to loss.

Personally I think that funerals are for the people left behind. It is their time to say good bye as they adjust to life without their loved one. If bereavement is not properly dealt with then it can affect mental health later in life as other losses are experienced (this takes up a large proportion of the mental health budget). If the children were disruptive though it would not be unreasonable to expect them to quietly step out as you would with other gatherings.

If bereavement is not properly dealt with then it can affect mental health later in life as other losses are experienced

I agree, but I don't understand how your typical funeral service would play a major role in the grief process of a small child (I.e. Pre-school age). If they are too young to be relied upon to sit still, they are too young to have any real understanding of what a funeral is... Of course they need to be able to grieve, but to be required to sit solent and still while a service is conducted which they will not comprehend in anything but the vaguest way isn't exactly going to be a support to the grieving small child. A young child will only feel excluded if adults are insensitive about it... I just got sent to a relative (other side of family) without any fanfare or feeling that there was something special happening that I would be missing out on.... But beforehand and afterwards, my Mother made sure my siblings and I talked/cried about it and were encouraged to grieve and be open about our feelings

• as such I didn't miss not going at all.

So sorry about about the loss of your Mum. Really difficult one this. When my dfinl died, my ds, dn and dn were 2,3 and 5 didn't include them in funeral as brl m&d kindly looked after them. When my mum passed away on my ds 12th birthday he really wanted to be there as he had more memories of his Granny. Love to you and your family xx