To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

treaclesoda re "And when I say 'is that a commonly held view' I don't mean 'your view is wrong'.

I know from your comments this is a genuine question so I will add my views.
I think lots of people in England or Britain have different view. I would go to a neighbours funeral, if I could. But I would not expect a neighbour to come to mine. My mum's funeral is soon. I would not expect her old neighbours to come to it In some ways I would prefer only family and close friends. But if an old neighbour came who really liked her, so be it. One of my mum's neighbours was her friend for about 50 years. They are coming, and I am pleased about that.

I can see it is very cultural, just as those who go to anybody's funeral may find it offensive that I may not go to a funeral of someone I hardly know from my community. Likewise, as someone bereaved I would be surprised and really quite uncertain to see a number of people at a close relatives funeral who I did not know at all. I don't find it particularly respectful, especially if they are only going because they would be thought of badly if they did not go.

treacle re "How do other people pay their respect and let the family know that they have heard about the death and they want to acknowledge it? Or is it just not mentioned?"

They send a nice card, share a pleasant memory in that card. It's very comforting. They may send flowers or make a donation to the charity that the family is collecting for, which is often related to how the perosn died (e.g. medical charity). If someone feels they really want to come, that is lovely and is genuinely imporant, but if they had no connected to the deceased it would be for me meaningless if they were simply coming because it was expected.

(I am English but have travelled the world and understand a variety of different cultures.)

Treacle re "clearly this must be a cultural thing because to loads of other posters it is very normal that the close family dictate who can attend."

I don't think it is normal to tell people not to attend, I think it happens. It is quite different when a family says, as this one has, no young children, it is not actually saying specific people cannot attend because they don't like them or whatever, they are saying they do not want young children present. I think you are right this is a cultural clash BUT the family are presumably from the same culture so that doesn't quite explain it.

I am confused why people assume the family would be sure to take the kids out if they made a fuss, how could one be sure they would do that when they don't respect the wish to not bring them along in the first place. Might they feel the children have every right to be there even if they are making a fuss?

I wonder if anyone has asked these kids if they wish to attend! Our son is coming to my mum's wake, he was given the choice, he is 5, he doesn't want to come to the funeral.

grannytomine re "OP your nephew may have loved your mother more than you, the same as you or less than you, who can say?" This is an utterly ridiculous thing to say to a grieving women and you should be ashed to have said that.

"He is entitled to say his goodbyes and if having his children with him helps why should he be denied that" Entitled that is exactly what this thread is about, people thinking they are entitled to do as they like, regardless of those who they hurt. People are not entitled to inflect further stress and suffering on people bereaving the loss of a life partner or parent. Surely even with cultural differences, if these exist within the family, one should respect the wishes of the life partner?

teacherwith2kids Re "Maybe it is me - but who are 'chief mourners'???? At a funeral, everyone has lost the deceased, everyone is mourning them."

I am afriad it is not just you who feels everyone is mourning so all are equally grieving but there are chief mourers, they are the next of kin.

www.debretts.com/british-etiquette/rites-passage/death/planning-funeral/funeral-protocol

So sorry for your loss OP

My view is that if your dad doesn't want children at the service then that's the end of the matter, no matter what your personal opinion. It is beyond the pale to start wrangling with the widower/widow's wishes at the worst time of their lives.

Children can learn about funerals and they can also learn about respecting somebody's wishes at funerals. I wouldn't have a problem with this request even if it meant DH or me missing the service if one of us had to look after the DC.

The widower/widow's wishes are final.

Neither of my DC (aged 6&8 at the time) attended their great grandparents' funerals, even though they had a closer relationship with them than with their maternal grandparents (my Mum & stepfather).

They knew what had happened and were sad for the great grandparent each time, but were not phased by not going to the funeral.

They are both fairly pragmatic teens now and accept death happens. They have not been adversely affected by not attending a funeral.

I don't think that being a chief mourner gives anyone the right to ban others from a funeral and I don't think banning a child is more acceptable than banning an adult.

I would find it weird and intrusive for neighbours and acquaintances who didn't know the deceased to come to a funeral but understand that it's the norm in other parts of the UK.

When DP's mum died I took dd, aged 18moths, to the funeral. (I had no choice, really). She was a PITA-laughing and chortling, unable to keep still.

At age 8/9, at my auntie's funeral, it was a completely different matter. She was made very welcome , and even referred to in the (Methodist) Minister's sermon. She still didn't have a clue what was going on, though, even when the coffin came through the chapel.

In that neighbourhood, it was (still is) customary for neighbours and members of the community to attend.

However, in this case, I'm firmly of the belief that the deceased's wishes are respected. Why wouldn't they be?

Italiangreyhound, I am entitled to my view, love isn't something that is given out according to a rule book. One of my sons was very close to my mother, I think most if not all of the family would have agreed that he was probably closer to her than any of her children. When he and his partner bought a house they chose one within walking distance of her house, he spent alot of time with her right up to her death. You might think that odd but it was a fact and I find it odd that in life we accept we like some people more than others and love some people more than others but in families there has to be this hierarchy.

I honestly don't see what is so ridiculous or upsetting to say that it is possible that the nephew may have loved his grandmother more or less than his aunt did. Surely that is a fact?

Have you ever seen posts on here where people have gone NC with their parents because they hate them?

But it's the nephew's child, not the nephew.

And it's actually his partner that's causing the ruckus.

NannyOgg, but it is the nephew and his wife who want to take the children. Obviously a 3 year old is not demanding to go to the funeral but the child's father wants him to attend. The nephew has argued with his father about it and the OP involved his wife who has backed her husband. Personally I think it is better to deal with the nephew and leave his wife out of it, if people fallout I think it is usually easier to make up with family rather than inlaws due to lifelong relationships e.g. the nephew will have memories of auntie when he was a child whereas his wife's relationship with her is likely to have been shorter. Might not work like that in all families but it is what I have seen.

...and it's not about love; it's about the deceased's wishes.

OP says she knows what mum would have wanted. She doesn't say her mum stated this. I haven't told my kids what I want at my funeral and neither did my mother on the otherhand my grandmother was very clear about what she wanted. Some people talk about these things and others don't.

Apart from that I think funerals are for those left behind, many people believe this just as many other people will disagree. This is why I have never discussed it, I think they should arrange it not me.

Same as children attending funerals, it isn't right or wrong.

Just wanted to ask people who think it is all about what the widower wants, would you still feel that if someone had children from a previous relationship and they were banned from the funeral by their step-parent? Banning people from funerals could become really controversial but if people are saying it is about next of kin then this could happen.

Depends on the circumstances, they are all different.

And I don't think it's the same as banning all small children.

I agree, Nanny.

I have known adults who were banned from their parents funeral and it was for very good reason/criminality on their parts towards the parents/drugs, etc.

Grannytomine - that's not a good comparison at all.

I don't really see what harm having these children would do but i wouldn't want to cause any more upset to the immediate family if possible.

It will mean more than these two children will not go to this funeral.

It also means the deceased's grandson has fallen out with his parent (her child) and his aunt (also her child) and her grandson, his wife and her great-grandchildren will remember being unwelcome. If she said no kids at the funeral when she was alive she didn't know this would be the fallout. Maybe she wouldn't have felt strongly enough about "no kids" to have her family fall apart over this.

That's his lookout, pax. He could easily accept that the deceased's husband didn't want kids there and go on his own. It's hardly denying them basic human rights.

Well I feel that granntomines' comparison is very apt.
From the perspective of having been "chief morner" three times now (parents and my husband), I'm am very uncomfortable with the idea that anyone gets to decide who can say goodbye. That is a personal decision for each morner; immediate family gets to choose the most meaningful ceremony, music and so on, not to decide who is grieving enough to attend. It's not a party, there is no second chance to; you could be very hurtful to someone without even being aware of it.
I'll just add that for me my husbands' funeral was mostly a blur, and apart from children, mother-in-law and really close friends, I didn't really notice that much if people were there or not.

' I'm am very uncomfortable with the idea that anyone gets to decide who can say goodbye. '

Wow! We were all really supportive of my cousin's banning her scumbag crim brother from their mother's funeral. He made all of their lives a misery and was in prison for stealing from their mother and assaulting her greatly. He still wanted to come to the funeral. Glad he wasn't there.

Sometimes, it's entirely feasible for some to be banned from a funeral.

Believe it or not, there are those who use them to make trouble.

I am confused why people assume the family would be sure to take the kids out if they made a fuss, how could one be sure they would do that when they don't respect the wish to not bring them along in the first place. Might they feel the children have every right to be there even if they are making a fuss?

I agree... I've been to many events where parents have failed to remove noisy children disrupting an event... I fail to see how an child of 3 and under can grasp what a funeral is about anyway, let alone for this to be a key part of their grieving process.

I'm am very uncomfortable with the idea that anyone gets to decide who can say goodbye.

A funeral is not the one and only way to say goodbye!

These are very young children, great grand children. I really doubt the 3 yr old (and 6 yr old) need or even want to be there fir closure, to say goodbye.