DD is calling social services on me in the morning

[moodymelting]

DD is 13 and has turned Kevin and Perry overnight.
She has turned into a nightmare.
When ever she is told off she resorts to telling me to 'go away and leave her alone and name calling or covering her ears shouting la la la . She will NEVER admit she is in the wrong or apologise. She will do nothing at all to help in the house.

She spilt sweets she had bought all over my bedroom floor along with cut up tights and cardboard she had been messing with. I asked her twice to move it and she refused resorting to her go away and leave me alone tactic. When I did not back down she has gone mad! She walked into the kitchen and tipped my rubbish bin all out on the floor saying she was not picking it up and I could.

Apparently I want a perfect child because she's never done anything wrong, I am selfish, mean, she hates me. I'm a rubbish Mum and she would be better off with a different Mum than me who is a tight mess because I have refused to go tomorrow to pick up something for her when she's behaved like this.
Oh and she barricaded the room door shut with a chair so I couldn't go to bed.

I have told her that if she likes I will dial the number myself and I am sure they will rush right over to a child behaving like a total brat in-between dealing with the neglected kids who have no clothing/food or being abused

How on earth do you deal with the teen strops????!!!
N/C btw as everyone on my Facebook will know my user name otherwise!

Consequences follow on directly from the behaviour. Punishment is something unconnected, imposed by an authority figure. Taking off the bedroom door in OP's situation would be a punishment. Removing the xbox for bad behaviour at school would be a punishment. Finishing a meal if children can't sit nicely at the table any longer is a logical, natural consequence. The boundaries can blur, sure, but they are different concepts. One will have much more chance of being seen as fair by a teenager, though.

So sorry for you OP. Parenting is a bit shit a lot of the time. I'm lucky my three aren't bad, eldest just turned 16 and 12 yr old twins.
Oldest threatened to call ss once, I handed him the phone and said go on then but you don't get the latest phone, your own room and you'll have to change schools if they put you in care. I then went a bit Mrs Doyle 'go on, go on, go on' etc whilst holding the phone. Not sure what I'd have done if he'd taken the phone though.

fourage you really are. Sticking the knife in to the OP aren't you. Anything useful to say other than you're a bit shit OP?

You were definitely right to ground her. I'm not so sure about the phone. But what she did was criminal, not mere bad behaviour - so I guess different rules apply.

OP you could tell yourself one day you'll be a grandparent and with luck karma will bite your dd on the arse with teen just like her and you'll be able to say remember when you tipped my bin out on my floor. and give your grandchild done useful pointers to piss off her mother

You've managed to get to the crux of the problem without resorting to sarky aggression or wishy-washy parenting MorrisZ.

Great post.

Some excellent advice here and knowing DD as you do you can pick something that might help . I do remember reading a sad comment from a Dad who said 'Just wait until your dearest child turns into a sullen stranger' It really hurt when it happened,. My DD is well past this stage now and is a lovely woman, so take heart!
She said what pulled her up really short was my saying to her, when she was in a more rational mood, that she wouldn't be able to go anywhere in the world and expect people to like her or give her any opportunities if she carried on with her current attitude and behaviour. Good luck - I feel for you.

I think that was a very mild punishment for shop lifting but we each have our own ways of knowing what works. I was Iucky with my son as the look on my face usually spoke volumes and stopped most actions but I didn't have a daughter and I believe they are much harder in mid teens with all the hormones raging etc. However hormones cannot be an excuse as we are trying to bring them up to be decent human beings and as an adult she will have much tougher times for the same reason so she must learn control which she obviously isn't. All of life has to be give and take but she us obviously taking everything so the only thing to work will be giving what you get so she knows exactly what it's like to be on the other side. As I said before ignore her and get on with living and if she deep down knows she wants her life to be the same she'll either come round slowly or go hungry and dirty but don't rise to arguments or needling. You'll have to be like a lump of metal unyielding.

In my view the month's grounding and removal of phone was appropriate. Long enough to be severe, not so long that a teenager can't envision the end of it.

The thing about consequences and punishment and criminal and bad behaviour is that the lines are in places just a matter of perspective.

A law is a rule made up by the government.
A rule is something made up by a parent. Breaking one is a crime. But really both are the same. It is all rule breaking. Some rules are more important. Some laws are less reasonable than others. The consequences of law breaking is punishment. Out of curiosity do you disagree with that fourage? To a certain extent I do (imprisonment is just a social time out and fixes nothing) but I accept there must be some punishmemt for law breakers because iusually the consequences of their actions affect others not them.

And this is often where the conflict lies in my house. Issues such as self care are easy. If they don't eat, sleep, tidy up then they will be hungry, tired and their stuff will be lost. So where there is self interest it is easy. They literally suffer the consequences.

I also accept that often they are tired and emotional. However, if whilst tired and emotional one of my dts kicks the other in the throat on purpose what should be done?

There are no obvious self interest consequences for the kicker but a definite consequence for the child who has been kicked, who would like to see redress and most of all would like not to be kicked again.

Yes if they calm down an apology might be forthcoming eventually but it doesn't stop it happening again.

One them habitualky makes me late for work. It doesn't matter how early she is up. I have talked to her about it. I have explained why I cannot be late and why it is bad manners for her to be late for school.
But I do not have time to WAIT for her to think about it, calm down, decide she is wrong etc. Etc. And even if I did a few days later she would do it again because the underlying issue is not emotional distress it is massive CBA.

I try to stay calm. I try not to inflict arbitrary punishment. I try to make consequences that fit actions so e.g. I am more likely to use not having time for nice things as a consequence of time wasting rather than e.g. removal of phone but sometimes you have to use the lever that works.

Rewarding good behaviour (even the tiniest bit, such as throwing something in the bin and missing) is much more effective than punishing bad behaviour. Brilliantly explained and illustrated in the book Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor. Applies to people as well as dogs. I wish I had read this book before having children!
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1860542387/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1458481312&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=dont+shoot+the+dog+karen+pryor&dpPl=1&dpID=51A0YJY8V8L&ref=plSrch

I am one of those who took the bedroom door off. Although I did go and buy a thick door curtain to cover the hole for 3 months. She was desperate to have it back.

She was barricading herself into her room. I still don't know how she managed to move the furniture as it's so heavy. Anger I suppose.

Rewarding very good behaviour I agree with ordinary good behaviour should be the norm. If someone was continuously making me late I would simply go without them and they would have to take the consequences of dealing with the s hook.or any fines which have to be paid. Good timekeeping is an essential part of life or we would have even more chaos. I heard on the TV the other day that a 6 year old had attacked a teacher and I'm afraid I thought we has reached the end of any type of tolerance. Is there any hope for this country?

I cannot leave an 8 year old behind for making me late.

And are rewards not as arbitrary as punishments? (I do reward good behaviour but I do think it is arbitrary.) A reward is no more a logical consequence of good behaviour than punishment is of bad.

And how do reward someone for not violently assaulting their siblings?

22sailors, I agree. I don't reward my children's behaviour. THey can work out for themselves that if they are pleasant and kind to others their their life becomes easier too.

It doesn't matter that we have different views. I have never punished a child and none of them would shop lift. Punished children tend to be the ones who do things wrong. It's the age old cartoon of the father beating a child with a stick - "that will teach you to resort to violence against someone smaller than you are"

I agree eustace. I hated to say it too but my kids would never shoplift.

Treating kids with empathy teaches them to behave empathically.

fourage

how on earth could you possibly know that?
How do you know they haven't already?

I'm sure my dd wouldn't, have no idea if the other 2 did, they are grown up now.
i'd like to think they wouldn't or didn't but it's not a realistic way to think all the time.
"Oh no my children wouldn't do that".

'my kids would never shoplift.'

I've also come across parents who believe their children can do no wrong.

No, course they wouldn't.

newlife4me, because I know my children's moral compass.

How can you be sure your DD wouldn't?

zigzag - not all kids are devious and conniving. Yours may be, but I can assure you not all are like that.

moody. just to say that my DD, took me to hell & back, I muddled through, with her vile shouting father making empty threats & shouting about being ungrateful.
I did a certain amount of losing the plot also. Maybe I should have sung a ballad from sound of music instead.....that made me snort :o)
I tried to keep as pacific as poss to keep lines of communication open, even when she ran away etc.. She did have some genuine problems that were not of her making. (as opposed to being adolescent demon from Hades)
but presently she is now living at home. after going off travelling. we laugh, we play about, we sing.
We are best friends. However, sometimes she goes right off at a tangent, is angry, aggressive & critical, & every single time it proves to be PMT, she does not have a regular cycle, so keeping a calendar & being prepared for it isn't simple.
Lastly, for what it's worth, I don't see why she was in your bedroom doing her cutting up to begin with other than hers is such a tip she enjoys the cleanliness of yours. So maybe, you could suggest that if you both tidy her room, maybe offer to helping her redecorate it, new curtains? rug ? duvet cover ? & try & get her to understand tidying, means comfortable space to enjoy.
If she tells you to do it yourself, say errr, well you were prepared to help her, but you are not her servant.
Makes sure she doesn't go into your room. put a lock on to the door & just make sure that only you get the key, or maybe combination padlock ?

My 13yo can be like this sometimes.

I try not to react while she is in a stupor, it only adds fuel to the fire. Unless she is doing something that will cause irreparable damage to the house or herself, I wait her out, give her time to cool off and then talk to her about punishments.

In instances where she makes a mess/throws things I leave the mess until she is calmer, tell then tell her "Your punishment for X is to lose your phone for X amount of days, if you do not go and tidy up I will add your ipod to that list. You have five minutes."

She once smashed my phone deliberately

I took hers and still have it. I bought her a cheap replacement after a few weeks because she does need a phone, she is desperate to earn back the right to own a branded phone like her friends, so that is my ultimate tool atm. I only need to utter "iphone" if it looks like she's going to kick off and she calms down

Telling a beloved relative helps too. She dotes on her Grandad, there is no punishment in the world worse than him telling her that he is dissapointed in her.

With the exception of the phone I try not to make punishments last too long or too harsh. If she feels she is forever clearing a backlog of punishment she'll give up.

'dysfunctional relationship she is having with her mother is not helping.'

As someone who grew up with my parents fostering children from dysfunctional families I would like to know why you feel I am bringing her up in a dysfunctional family fourage?

Eustace I never thought any of my DCs would shoplift but she did. Would you honestly not punish your DCs if they did the same?
My aim is to be absolutely as certain as I can that she doesn't do it again as I don't want her getting a criminal record which could wreck her career chances. I haven't shouted at her, I haven't hit her - I've just been very clear that she has done something wrong and needs to face the consequences.
As adults, if we break the law we get punished. I don't think it's damaging to make children aware that, if they behave badly, there are consequences- whether you call it punishment is just semantics.
I'm a huge believer in praise and praising every little thing DS2 does well (even if it's just managing not to interrupt for 30 seconds while I'm on the phone) has made a significant change in his behaviour. However, that doesn't mean that there are no consequences if he throws a plate at my head like he did last night.

I want to send this thread to Sanctimommy, highlighting fourage's posts