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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Mother's have it tough

324 replies

Zenab1 · 16/03/2016 22:13

Hello mothers, so I had an incident which left me humiliated and angry today. I went to Chatham House, a policy institution in central london to attend a talk that was happening there. When I get to the conference hall, I was told that I was not allowed to get in with my buggy in which my baby girl was peaceful sleeping. Their main excuse was, it's gonna block the way in case people need to evacuate for emergency. I said but this information is not communicated anywhere on your website and I even called to double check and the person I spoke to said you are mother friendly. Anyway, they insisted that I leave the building because they won't let me in. I got so emotional and told them that was unfair as I came from a long way and the whole thing seemed to me some kind of discrimination. They escorted me out and told me that I should complain if I like to by sending an email. I felt so humiliated and degraded. Do you think this was right ladies, it happening in this day and age and in one of the worlds developed countries, that a mum should be mistreated like this for simple being mum?

OP posts:
ElementaryMyDear · 18/03/2016 22:54

LaurieMarlow, OP hasn't suggested that they refused to accommodate the buggy. What they refused to do was to accommodate in the auditorium for entirely sensible safety reasons. Asking a mother to leave the buggy somewhere safely out of the way and carry her baby into the conference hall is neither a ban on babies or mothers.

Do you seriously want to be in a crowded auditorium when there's a fire and people can't get out because there's a buggy in the way?

LaurieMarlow · 18/03/2016 23:02

What I'm really saying is that there was a way of handling the OPs situation with empathy and accommodation. Whether this involved discussing buggy options with her in the initial conversation (instead of quacking nonsense about being mum friendly ad then totally reneging in reality). Or handling her dilemma on the day with more imagination or sympathy.

What depresses me is the OP being made to feel like a pariah for daring to show up to a cultural event with a baby (not to mention a BUGGY). And the number of mumsnetters who don't get why that's a problem.

amarmai · 18/03/2016 23:06

it's as if there is a competition as to which is more important- the wheelchair OR the buggy. Weird.

ElementaryMyDear · 18/03/2016 23:09

They didn't renege in reality or at all, LaurieMarlow. Being mother friendly means things like allowing a baby onto the premises, having baby changing facilities, being willing to heat up bottles and allow breastfeeding; it does not mean that you will allow buggies in small auditoria where they will present a danger to others. And you don't know that they didn't handle the OP's situation with empathy. OP has made it clear that she didn't want to take the baby out of the buggy. Realistically, given that they couldn't have the buggy in the conference hall and OP wouldn't take the baby out of the buggy, what buggy options do you suggest there were?

And she wasn't made to feel a pariah for turning up with a baby. She was simply asked not to take her buggy where it posed a danger. Why do you insist on denying that?

LaurieMarlow · 18/03/2016 23:11

YY amarmai. As if the ambition shouldn't be greater accessibility for all. I cannot fucking understand it.

AuntJane · 18/03/2016 23:18

Yes, we can plan. OP was told that if she had called two weeks earlier arrangements could have been made. But she didn't.

I am a qualified fire marshall. I also have to complete risk assessments frequently in another role, involving animals. I understand that, in an emergency, the animals will not, if themselves, understand the situation, and will possibly constitute a risk themselves; the same may apply to babies. No matter how unlikely the occurance, there are some things I cannot legally allow, irrespective of how "reasonable" they may seem. As an organiser I will do all I can to meet others' needs, but I also expect others to meet me part way. For example, if I say "Do not touch the animals without supervision", I would expect people to be prepared to wait 30 seconds until a supervisor was available. Similarly, if I am arranging a meeting with a large number of attendees in a confined space, I would expect those attendees to respect the fire certification of the venue.

Samcro · 18/03/2016 23:20

MiscellaneousAssortment well said

ElementaryMyDear · 18/03/2016 23:29

But, Laurie, the venue was entirely accessible to parents with babies. The difference between a baby in a buggy and a person in a wheelchair is pretty obvious, surely.

DontCareHowIWantItNow · 18/03/2016 23:42

it's as if there is a competition as to which is more important- the wheelchair OR the buggy. Weird.

No what is weird is that you can't see the difference between the two.

You have a choice to not have the baby in the buggy. The wheelchair user doesn't have the choice.

The wheelchair is more important.

Bubblesinthesummer · 18/03/2016 23:45

What depresses me is the OP being made to feel like a pariah for daring to show up to a cultural event with a baby (not to mention a BUGGY). And the number of mumsnetters who don't get why that's a problem.

What depresses me is that posters seem to think wheelchairs and buggy are the same.

Babies don't have to be on the buggy. I have to be in my wheelchair!

zaryiah · 18/03/2016 23:55

When people suggest that buggy owners need equal access in the same way that wheelchair users do, they are not going to get a decent debate on here. Using a wheelchair affords you rights a disabled person. Using a buggy means you are baby who will most likely grow up and use their legs. A wheelchair is someone's legs. You wouldn't ask an able bodied person to leave their legs at the door, same as a wheelchair. A buggy is not the same!

zaryiah · 18/03/2016 23:56

Bubbles Yep, probably a bit big to go in a sling, eh?!

LovelyBranches · 19/03/2016 00:01

I am constantly amazed st the number of mumsnetters who think that just dragging a sleeping baby out of a buggy is a non issue. I have a placid baby but he would howl if I did this to him.

AvaCrowder · 19/03/2016 00:02

I agree that the buggy is not the same as a wheelchair.

If Op had taken the baby out of the buggy she may have heard the lecture.

But does mother friendly include accepting breastfeeding? I honestly thought we were allowed to breastfeed anywhere that a baby can be, and it's not discretionary.

PurpleDaisies · 19/03/2016 00:03

lovely are you suggesting the op should have been let in to the venue against fire regulations because the baby wouldn't have been very happy to be woken up?

PurpleDaisies · 19/03/2016 00:04

Sorry that should read "let into the venue with the buggy"

LovelyBranches · 19/03/2016 00:12

Purpledaisies. First of all, I, and many others don't know the intricacies of this buildings fire regulations. To be honest, if a room is that tightly packed that one buggy pushes it into an unsafe zone, then it probably isn't the most safe policy in the first place.

The Op was escorted off the building, spoken to rudely and not allowed in. Yet she had spoken to someone prior to the event and had a ticket. I wouldn't have packed my buggy up, it wouldn't be possible for me to take the baby out of the buggy, fold it and carry the baby in.

Also, I have a 16mo who may have difficulty walking due to a birth defect so I may use my ds's buggy for longer than most. So it's not as clear cut to say that wheelchairs and pushchairs are always entirely different.

PurpleDaisies · 19/03/2016 00:23

We can only take at face value the fact that the op was told she could not come in due to the need to evacuate safely in an emergency. The op has not said that she specifically asked in advance whether she could take a buggy in-I'd have thought that she'd have mentioned that at some point given that almost everyone has said it was reasonable for the venue to deny admittance to the buggy. I wouldn't have had a problem with her going on with a quiet baby and taking them out if they got noisy.

Whether or not you can fold up a buggy and take it in or not is irrelevant. If they are not allowed in to the room that's that and it's up to you to make alternative arrangements.

If children have additional needs and require the use of a buggy for longer I agree that that's a different situation but at no point has the op suggested that was the reason she wanted to take the buggy in. I think posters would generally agree a buggy being used by a disabled child was equivalent to a wheelchair.

Bubblesinthesummer · 19/03/2016 00:29

Also, I have a 16mo who may have difficulty walking due to a birth defect so I may use my ds's buggy for longer than most. So it's not as clear cut to say that wheelchairs and pushchairs are always entirely different.

Yes it is as purple has said.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 19/03/2016 00:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LovelyBranches · 19/03/2016 00:32

Purple Daisy, I'm sure many would agree if they knew my child had a disability, thing is, you cant bloody tell by looking at my son. This thread has thoroughly depressed me. Many people seem to suggest that as a mother I have to dedicate all mental energy whilst on mat leave to my baby. I have to accept my life will never be the same (no one has ever told my dh that) and I've had a pretty good insight into what I will face in the future when I use a buggy instead of a wheelchair for my son.

The op hasn't mentioned disability, so you may be safe to assume in this case it isn't an issue, but for the other posters who have been quite forceful in their views that a wheelchair and buggy aren't the same, please have a rethink because that's not always true.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 19/03/2016 00:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bubblesinthesummer · 19/03/2016 00:41

The op hasn't mentioned disability, so you may be safe to assume in this case it isn't an issue, but for the other posters who have been quite forceful in their views that a wheelchair and buggy aren't the same, please have a rethink because that's not always true.

People in this thread weren't talking about DC in disabled buggy though. They were comparing buggy to wheelchairs which I find really offensive.

I don't have a choice but to use my chair. DC that don't have a disability don't have to use the buggy.

zaryiah · 19/03/2016 00:59

Lovely I'm not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse. If a buggy is used for medical reasons, then it's a wheelchair. Do you really expect not to tell people that it's a wheelchair, not a buggy? I had an invisible disability and if I wanted, for example, a fast pass at a theme park, I had to let the staff know I had mobility problems. I now use crutches or a wheelchair, so I've been on both sides of visible and invisible. Most people are kind and caring. People hold doors, offer me seats on trains and airport assistance is bloody fantastic. Life with a disability has got easier over time and society is becoming more disability friendly but you have to understand why we need to protect those rights. We don't want them disappearing and getting mixed up with other non issues like buggies that can be folded when there is a perfectly healthy parent and child involved in the scenario.

LoopiusMaximus · 19/03/2016 01:28

Why would you even remotely consider taking a child to this type of event? Its totally bonkers but I have to say, it's also very brave of you to even half consider!

If you can't find childcare then you don't go - simple! Unfortunately there are some things we can no longer do when we decide to be parents (especially with children young enough for a pram).. Theres loads of things i'd love to do but can't due to having no childcare. That's life. No ones discriminating against you.