Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really upset with my brother re: ds?

291 replies

VicWillia · 16/03/2016 18:58

I'm genuinely interested to see if people think I'm right to be angry or if it's my ds who is a little wotsit who needs better discipline.

Ds is 5. He can be pretty cheeky as I guess a lot of 5 yo boys are. He is quite naughty with saying sorry - if he upsets someone it usually takes quite a while on the naughty step before he'll apologize. He's pretty stubborn.

Tonight, we were visiting my dm and my brother was there too. Ds was being cheeky and told my brother he was "fatty". For some reason my brother took massive offence (he isn't fat so he can't have taken it personally) and grabbed ds hands, saying he wouldn't let go until ds said sorry. Ds was trying to squirm away and wouldn't apologize. My brother wouldn't let him go so ds started playfully biting at my brothers fingers to get him to let go (it was definitely playfully, ds is not the sort of child to hurt others) and my brother slapped him across the face.

Ds was obviously very upset and had a red mark on his face. AIBU to be completely livid and feeling like I never want to see my brother again? Or should I have stepped in and made my ds apologize?

OP posts:
Narp · 16/03/2016 19:34

Your DB is utterly in the wrong

And whilst it's massively important for children to learn to say sorry, foxing them to do so is utterly meaningless and unproductive - a small child who is that way inclined will get reward from the attention NOT saying sorry will get them

Narp · 16/03/2016 19:34

forcing, not foxing

Catsize · 16/03/2016 19:34

Is one solution for your brother to apologise to your son? Would have the advantage of teaching your son various lessons in the process. And your brother! I would be very very angry if my brother did this, but ceasing all contact may be impractical.

Narp · 16/03/2016 19:35

The Brother should bloody well apologise first, and mean it. He is the adult.

Original poster
VicWillia · 16/03/2016 19:37

Thank you everyone for your views.

As I said I will be taking this seriously with ds and tell him about not insulting people. He doesn't often do it but I shall try to make it so he never does.

I won't be bothering with my brother again. We aren't close anyway because he isn't a good person.

Thanks .

OP posts:
Narp · 16/03/2016 19:37

And yes, this is and offence. He struck a child and left a mark.

There is no excuse for this, none

HeffalumpHistory · 16/03/2016 19:37

Ffs what are people going on about as if the child is at fault?!
5 year olds can be cheeky little buggers. Rightly or wrongly and some more than others.
Yes, he shouldn't have called the guy a fatty but come on to fuck!!! he's 5!!!!! Doesn't make it OK to slap!!

Also agree with a pp in that a forced apology isn't worth anything. Saying sorry when you're not doesn't teach much.

Op, out of interest and as you haven't mentioned... What WAS your reaction when this happened?

ElementaryMyDear · 16/03/2016 19:37

Your're not overreacting at all. What your brother did was criminal assault. I completely understand why you're not reporting him, and I wouldn't if I were in your place, but I agree you can't have your brother near your children again.

Original poster
VicWillia · 16/03/2016 19:39

My brother would NEVER apologise to ds. He believes he's entirely in the right and even berated me for comforting ds after he was slapped.

OP posts:
ElementaryMyDear · 16/03/2016 19:41

SnowFairy, I disagree that the fact that OP's brother has a history of violence makes any difference. So far as I'm concerned, his action in trapping a small child and then slapping him round the face is unacceptable whether it's the first time he's done it or the 100th. Nor do I think this was a drip feed; the fact that that was the brother's automatic reaction signalled to me that he has a natural propensity for violence anyway.

Princesspeach1980 · 16/03/2016 19:41

My DS is quite claustrophobia and absolutely can't cope with being trapped. He would bite, kick and scream if someone restrained him that way because he would panic. It's never ok to hit someone else's child, let alone hard enough to leave a red mark. I would be keeping well away from db if he doesn't even see he's done anything wrong

Original poster
VicWillia · 16/03/2016 19:41

I cuddled ds while my brother made comments like "oh there you go again, coddling him, he'll never learn etc..

I then put ds coat on and left the house with him without another word.

My mum called after and agreed brother was out of order but that ds has got to start saying he's sorry.

OP posts:
TheSnowFairy · 16/03/2016 19:41

MrsBob I did say her brother was out of order.

As this said, both OP and her DB were wrong.

Narp · 16/03/2016 19:41

I wouldn't forgive that either.

Pinkheart5915 · 16/03/2016 19:42

Your brother should of been made to say sorry.

Your brother was in the wrong, you don't slap other people's children. It is up to the parents and only the parents to discipline there children.

Being called fatty by a 5 year old is nothing too serious, of course you tell him to say sorry for the remark but it's nothing too bad.

TheWeeBabySeamus1 · 16/03/2016 19:42

No one has blamed the child. Most pps have said that the OP should have stepped in when he was rude. She absolutely should have intervened (sp?) when DB grabbed her sons arm especially if he has a history of violence.

If I were the OP I'd report it to the police and never let DB near my son again. DB was beyond wrong, and no one is saying he was justified.

HeffalumpHistory · 16/03/2016 19:43

In which case your bro is even more of a knob than I thought & I'd be more inclined to report.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 16/03/2016 19:48

There is no excuse for this. None whatsoever.

I know others have drawn this comparison too but seriously. If a woman called her partner a fatty, and he held her down to make her apologise and smacked her across the face, would there be people saying "Well the woman shouldn't have been rude", "well the woman should have been disciplined"?

(If the answer is "yes", then I despair).

Your brother is a twat.

TealLove · 16/03/2016 19:49

Your brother is a disgusting person to do that. Please say to your DS you will protect him and never let him see him again.
I would have reported but that's me.

ExtraHotLatteToGo · 16/03/2016 19:49

No one else can really say if your DS was cheeky/being silly/rude/beyond rude...only you know what's acceptable teasing/banter in your family. You need to deal with his comment as you see fit. However, whether it's acceptable in your family or not, I'd be explaining to him that it is definitely NOT acceptable outside of your family & why. Kids pick stuff up in the playground that they don't understand. You can't expect a 5 yo to know it's hurtful unless you explain it to them and as he's using it out of context, I'd assume he just sees it as a 'tease'. Hardly a massive deal when said to a non fat grown man.

I don't think that your brother holding your sons hands is necessarily a terrible thing, but it clearly isn't something that will work with your DS, I assume your brother knows him well enough to know that?! If he does know him well enough it was stupid & confrontational. On the other hand, does your brother despair of you not dealing with your DS when he's cheeky/naughty?

It sounds to me like your DS hurt your brother when biting him and your brother lashed out. He clearly has a quick & nasty temper. I would tell him that if he ever laid another finger on my son, in that way, I'd be ringing the police immediately. End of. Families are complicated and unless you're going to go NC with your Mum, it's going to be pretty impossible to go NC with your brother. It's easier to just accept that. However, there's not a cat in hells chance that I'd let EITHER of them have any unsupervised contact with my children. Slapping him across the face is unacceptable no matter what, doing it over something so trivial is astounding. Your mother minimising it is equally worrying. They cannot be trusted alone with your children.

💐🍫

starry0ne · 16/03/2016 19:49

Obviously your brother was unreasonable....

However the point of playfully biting seems to have been bit here..He had been rude, was trying to get away... I am left wondering if the playful biting actually hurt DB and wasn't playful....It doesn't seem a time to be playful or fit the senario

TheSnowFairy · 16/03/2016 19:54

To reiterate - I am not in any way condoning the violence.

I am, however, commenting on the OP's parenting - as they asked in their original post 'if it's my DS who's a little wotsit who needs better discipline'.

Again, for clarity:

OP was wrong.

DB was out of order.

DS needs better discipline.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 16/03/2016 19:54

I'm of the opinion that nobody is allowed to slap any 5yr old round the face, no matter what they've done.

Your brother was violent to you growing up, now he's violent to your son - you'd do right to keep them away from each other.

I actually think it's bad form to 'demand' apologies from children for wrong doing - far better to explain to the child what was wrong, and why.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/03/2016 19:55

Your brother is a cock. He is an adult and has no excuse. If your DC had kicked him in the bollocks and called him a cunt, he still would have no right to hit a five year old!

gandalf456 · 16/03/2016 20:00

She does give him time out so he does get discipline. Five is a hard age and it takes time for it to sink in. My ds was the same. Everything I tried didn't seem to work then suddenly it clicked in. Rome wasn't built in a day

Swipe left for the next trending thread