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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really upset with my brother re: ds?

291 replies

VicWillia · 16/03/2016 18:58

I'm genuinely interested to see if people think I'm right to be angry or if it's my ds who is a little wotsit who needs better discipline.

Ds is 5. He can be pretty cheeky as I guess a lot of 5 yo boys are. He is quite naughty with saying sorry - if he upsets someone it usually takes quite a while on the naughty step before he'll apologize. He's pretty stubborn.

Tonight, we were visiting my dm and my brother was there too. Ds was being cheeky and told my brother he was "fatty". For some reason my brother took massive offence (he isn't fat so he can't have taken it personally) and grabbed ds hands, saying he wouldn't let go until ds said sorry. Ds was trying to squirm away and wouldn't apologize. My brother wouldn't let him go so ds started playfully biting at my brothers fingers to get him to let go (it was definitely playfully, ds is not the sort of child to hurt others) and my brother slapped him across the face.

Ds was obviously very upset and had a red mark on his face. AIBU to be completely livid and feeling like I never want to see my brother again? Or should I have stepped in and made my ds apologize?

OP posts:
AwfulBeryl · 16/03/2016 22:22

I have read the thread snow.

Trollicking · 16/03/2016 22:25

Granny. Yeah I get that but I was talking about how the OP refers to her sons biting as playful when I don't think biting should ever be called playful.

I used the phrase AS A COMPLETELY SEPERATE ISSUE in my post which I thought made it clear that I wasn't talking about the incident with the brother Confused

EweAreHere · 16/03/2016 22:26

A grown up hit your FIVE year old for being a FIVE year old.

If he had been a stranger, you would have called the police, and rightfully so.

Tell your brother and mother this. Their response should be interesting.

grannytomine · 16/03/2016 22:27

Trollicking, but she doesn't talk about him biting normally, I agree it probably wasn't playful but I wouldn't blame the child for it. If its something he does alot it needs to be dealt with but I don't think he should be blamed in this situation.

TealLove · 16/03/2016 22:29

The child's hands were being restricted. He is 5! It would have been like being totally overpowered. Poor little boy.

AwfulBeryl · 16/03/2016 22:30

Why don't you think biting shouldn't be playful trollicking ? Genuinely interested, just as a point of discussion rather than having a dig Smile
My dts do playful biting, they do lots of playful wrestling type stuff. They mostly know only do do it on each other and other willing close friends / cousins though.

I feels really sorry for ops ds, he is 5, he doesn't know how to handle conflict like that, some adults don't know how to handle conflict. Ops brother sounds really aggressive, I can easily see how a 5 year old would panic in that situation and be a bit silly. I really can't understand the fixation on disciplining a child who has been asulted by his adult uncle

PrimalLass · 16/03/2016 22:32

You all need to RTFT. No-one is victim blaming.

No. You need to get a take a look at how you have been deflecting what has happened to a 5-year-old.

If someone had held my hands and wouldn't let me go I'd be pretty justified in doing what I could to get away.

We are quite cheeky to each other in our house - does that justify assault?

EweAreHere · 16/03/2016 22:32

And, frankly, if an apology wasn't immediately forthcoming from your brother, I would call the police.

Your mother needs to apologize for supporting him, too. Her five year old grandchild was assaulted, quite cruelly , and she stood up for the person who did it!

Trollicking · 16/03/2016 22:32

Granny you seemed determined to misinterpret my post Confused I didn't suggest in anyway whatsoever that the boy was to blame. I just said AS A COMPLETELY SEPERATE ISSUE that the OP shouldn't refer to biting as playful. Hmm.

Chocolatteaddict1 · 16/03/2016 22:35

I don't think the name calling or biting should be brought up as he could think he deserved it. I wouldn't want him to have that link.

A five year old called his uncle a 'fatty' it escalated in to a slapped face. I really wouldn't want him to think he started it as it takes the blame of the adult.

Trollicking · 16/03/2016 22:38

AwfulBerry I've four DC who are now adults and we had and continue to have plenty of play fighting. I would never allow my kids to playfully 'bite' regardless of their intentions. It's too easy to bite too hard or for it to be misinterpreted.

Trollicking · 16/03/2016 22:39

Sorry for typos Blush

Inertia · 16/03/2016 22:41

I know you have said that you don't want to go to the police, but it would be worth talking to your child's teacher at school. If your child mentions the incident (and there's every chance he will- or the teacher may ask if the mark is still visible), then the teacher would be obliged to report it the adult in charge of safeguarding.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 16/03/2016 22:41

You all need to RTFT. No-one is victim blaming

The only acceptable response to anything along the lines of "is it a behaviour issue for a child when a adult comits an actual assult on them, one that actually passes the bar to be a criminal act"

Is no, it is always the adults fault. aLways. No excuses no blame on the victim.

Or that sort of thing

grannytomine · 16/03/2016 22:45

Trollicking, what you actually said was ^
As a completely separate issue I think you should treat you sons biting as serious and not playful.^

I'm not determined to misinterpret anything but I don't know why you think his biting is serious, his mum hasn't referred to any other instances of biting and in the circumstances even if it wasn't playful the child shouldn't be blamed for trying to escape a violent adult.

PaulAnkaTheDog · 16/03/2016 22:46

No one is victim blaming! Everyone has said the brother's behaviour was atrocious and completely unacceptable. Some have said as an aside that the op should look into sorting her son's behaviour though because of what she described.

grannytomine · 16/03/2016 22:46

Don't know what happened to my italics!

Trollicking · 16/03/2016 22:51

Granny. Jeez, you are like a dog with a bone. I am NOT victim blaming, I just don't think the OP should refer to her sons biting as playful. thats all Hmm

grannytomine · 16/03/2016 22:53

Wow, sorry I thought responding to other people was normal. So you say something, I reply and you say something else. I realise now that your word is final so I will go. I might even bite someone, it will have to be husband as he is the only one here, he might even enjoy some playful biting!!!!!!!!!!!!

PaulAnkaTheDog · 16/03/2016 22:58

Calm down granny. Hmm

HappyGoLuckyGirl · 16/03/2016 23:02

I would report him, the fucking cunt.

I don't care what a child is doing. Hitting a child above the shoulders is a criminal offense! It's fucking assault, doubly so if he left a mark.

I would have caved his fucking head in. Fuming for you! Angry

applesareredandgreen · 16/03/2016 23:06

the point where I think OP is BU is where she states that she would have intervened if it had been anyone but her brother as she was scared of him when she was growing up. If this was the case she should have intervened the moment her brother took hold of her child's hands - before her child bit her brother out of fright. And she should have intervened in order to protect her child - not her brother.

OP I think you know now that you need to keep your son right away from your brother in future - and I wouldn't let him spend time with your DM either unless you are around as she is obviously not in a position where she is willing to protect him.

HappyGoLuckyGirl · 16/03/2016 23:06

Don't know if all the fucks accurately portray my sheer anger.

Katarzyna79 · 16/03/2016 23:09

my brothers wouldn't hit my kids they don't hit their own. In my culture the face is regarded as sacred, if you need to hit someone in defence or attack you never go for the face totally disrespectful.

smacking a childs hands or bottom is one thing but it should never leave marks. to leave a red mark on the face, he must have hit him pretty hard.

why would an adult of that age get so irate at a bit of teasing? now if your brother was an immature hormonal teen I might be more understanding but your brother is just a few years younger than me, he's a grown man, and adult wtf is this behaviour?

a lot of people are detracting from the important issue the adults actions, yes the brother is an adult, the child is immature and still learning. if I restrain my child he or she will kick to get free too, it's a natural reaction. If i was retrained id kick punch whatever to get free. so if your brother didn't like the biting he should not have restrained the child.

I don't know if you went to put a stop to the biting immediately. but since your brother was holding him, he should have verbally reprimanded your child. if it didn't work then he could have asked you to step in, not take it upon himself to smack him across the face. it just shows a total lack of control on his behalf. I think I would have lost it with my brother if he had done that. I wonder if he'd like a smack across his face, hard enough to leave a red mark?

ovenchips · 16/03/2016 23:09

I think what your brother did was highly disturbing and don't blame you for being very, very upset. I would tell your brother that your DS awaits a sincere apology (which doesn't sound like he will get). It's an almost sinister overreaction to a five year old.

I am also very sorry that your mum did not stick up for your DS, or you really. You'd hope her overriding priority would have been the protection of her grandson.

I would keep on talking the incident through with your DS to allow him to process it, emphasising that hitting people is not allowed and you will not be seeing his uncle until his uncle apologises (which you know isn't going to happen).

As an aside, I think the time out plus forced apology method is not very effective. It engages you in a battle of wills with your child which is a scenario you'd always want to avoid IMHO.