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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unvaccinated children around newborn

303 replies

Foldback · 14/03/2016 15:22

I don't want to clog the other post here but I wondered what peoples thoughts are.

I'm currently pregnant. My closest friend chooses not to vaccinate her children aged 2 and 6 and has done this since pregnancy, both children attend nursery. Although I wouldn't make the same decision I don't want to debate her reasoning or the pros and cons of vaccination, there has been plenty of that on the other thread.

I have tried to research the possible risks but feel I'm stumbling in the dark on google. AIBU to not allow her / her children to have contact with my DS until he is able to receive his immunisations or am I being PFB?

OP posts:
peggyundercrackers · 17/03/2016 07:06

Thisismypassword I have seen some of these things in action - I have had measles and mumps when I was little - there were no complications. You are right we are cosseted in our 21st century lives - go back a few hundred years and most of us wouldn't be alive - it's a massively different world we live in and not just because of disease.

you know nothing about my children and their vaccination status and tbh it doesn't matter what their status is. It does matter that everyone has a free choice to make about their children though and I will defend that choice no matter what.

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 07:11

Fourfifthsof exactly.

I think we're wasting our breath. You can't argue with stupid and deranged.

What will they think if their kids get one of these diseases? Will they think 'oh well I took the risk and it didn't pan out?' Or will they have
deep regret!?

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 07:16

"well i can't speak for everyone, but when i decide where i'm going on holiday the vaccination status of the majority of its population doesn't enter my head. so yes, I probably would."

Great you are diving with your kids' health and you don't even know it. How ironic!

peggyundercrackers · 17/03/2016 07:21

Thesis tapeworm why are people stupid and deranged because they have a different opinion? Where do you get off abusing people like that?

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 07:26

It's tantamount to child abuse if there is no medical reason for not vaccinating your children. That is my opinion and you clearly have yours. We'll have to agree to disagree.

bumbleymummy · 17/03/2016 07:30

What a shame that you have to be so rude when you express your opinion thisIs. 'Stupid and deranged'? When people have posted about their vaccine damaged children?

ArgyMargy · 17/03/2016 07:31

SarfEast1cated - well no not really. TB vaccine is only given in areas deemed "high risk". If you have a baby in a low risk area it will not be offered. In fact nothing at all will be mentioned. If you then move to a high risk area you may have no idea it is high risk and so you're at risk and unprotected.

GreatFuckability · 17/03/2016 07:38

Thisismypassword- don't presume to know what I do or don't know about what risks I take or don't take. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

peggyundercrackers · 17/03/2016 07:39

"That is my opinion"

Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one but it's always the other persons that stinks...

Kelpeed the tax payer pays for everyone's life choice no matter what - it pays for your care if your an alcoholic, a drug taker, over weight for whatever reason, smokers, people who drive dangerously etc. Etc. - small parts of society cannot opt out of the model we have

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 07:40

And how rude are you when someone has come on here saying their relatives have died from not having the vaccine. You really are in it for yourself aren't you. I'd have more respect if you could see both sides, but you're so blinkered. Like other zealots you must at all costs keep pushing your agenda because if it's found out to be wrong then everything you believe goes down in flames.

GreatFuckability · 17/03/2016 07:50

ironic that YOU thisismypassword are the only person who is calling people names on this thread and being massively rude and insensitive, and yet you call others blinkered and unable to see the other side??
I see both sides. I am desperately, desperately sad for those who have lost family and friends to illnesses. because contrary to your internal dialogue I am neither unempathetic or uncaring. I am not stupid or deranged. I wish with all my heart that it was as simple as 'give vaccine= no one gets ill/hurt/damaged', but its not that simple. I wish I didn't have to live with the constant worry that my child will get an illness that will make them really sick, and could pass that illness on. I also wish that my daughter didn't have to struggle in life because of her reaction to the vaccine. I wish a lot of things. But life doesn't run on wishes. So wind your fucking neck in.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 17/03/2016 07:55

"I'd have more respect if you could see both sides, but you're so blinkered. Like other zealots you must at all costs keep pushing your agenda because if it's found out to be wrong then everything you believe goes down in flames."

I can see plenty of pro-vaccine people on this thread that this could equally apply to.

Do you accept that, for some, the vaccine does more damage than good? And that, for those people, by the time they know there's a problem it's too late? Do you agree that this is unacceptable, and that more research should be done to identify those at risk, and to work out why, so that safer vaccines can be developed?

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 07:59

Why should I 'wind my neck in' just because you don't agree with me? If you'd have come at it from that angle instead of 'I don't care about your kids' then maybe I would have had more sympathy.

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 08:07

Good one Peggy

tobysmum77 · 17/03/2016 08:31

Do you accept that, for some, the vaccine does more damage than good? And that, for those people, by the time they know there's a problem it's too late?

I think that mnetters often fail to understand the concept of day to day risk assessment. Nothing is absolutely risk free and a life of avoiding risks would not be a fulfilling one. So vaccines:

Vaccinating - very small risk of complications

Not vaccinating - bigger risk of individual catching nasty diseases. Lack of herd immunity introducing nasty diseases back to the vulnerable including newborn babies.

Not a hard choice for most of us.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 17/03/2016 08:41

I understand risk, and as I've said have chosen to vaccinate. But often the risks are not negligible (like with Bexsero), the diseases are not particularly nasty for most (Rubella, Mumps, Flu (in children), even for Measles most people come away unscathed), and there is little chance of achieving herd immunity with some vaccines, which are introduced for individual benefit (Bexsero, rotavirus).

I think a lot of MNers fail to understand that vaccines differ hugely in terms of necessity, effectiveness and safety and so should be considered individually, that next to nothing is known about who will react badly, and that the choice is often more complicated than "tiny risk of vaccine vs huge risk from disease".

Fourfifthsof · 17/03/2016 08:51

youcannot please can you give some more details / link about the risks from Bexsero? I'm assuming you are not referring to the potential fever that can follow the shot...

tobysmum77 · 17/03/2016 08:56

Well I completely understand that also. But in relation to research it needs to be efficacy for individual vaccines rather than 'vaccinate or dont vaccinate'. I think in short posts there is often misunderstanding. There is no doubt that as a population we have been saved from lots of nasty diseases by vaccines. But that doesn't mean we should necessarily vaccinate against absolutely everything.

But I stand by my point it may not apply to you but a lot of mnetters don't understand risk. It applies to all sorts of debates including sids, breastfeeding, artificial sweeteners. People expect things to be certified as 100% safe

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 08:56

What is wrong with bexsero??? It's incredibly irresponsible to fearmonger without facts.

murphyslaws · 17/03/2016 09:00

Personally I would wait until baby has vaccines. I band people coming around that were ill. My friend had a terrible cold and wanted to see newborn and got the hump when I said no. Her attitude was they will catch a cold at some point. I agreed but give the baby a chance.

Your baby your rules.

sugar21 · 17/03/2016 09:04

My Daisy died from Meningitis I wish she had been born later and been given a chance

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 09:09

Sugar Thanks

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 17/03/2016 09:20

No, I'm not just referring to the potential fever (although than in itself can be dangerous in the young babies given it routinely, hence the need for prophylactic paracetamol even with the slight reduction in effectiveness this causes for the other vaccines).

I refer to early safety data suggesting a 1:10000 - 1:1000 chance of Kawasaki disease, up to 1:100 chance of seizures etc.

link: www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/28407

Of course, as the vaccine is still in the assessment phase we don't have any information yet on side effects that are rarer than that.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 17/03/2016 09:21

"What is wrong with bexsero??? It's incredibly irresponsible to fearmonger without facts."

See link above for facts. Not fearmongering, just pointing out that the chances of adverse effects aren't negligible as many seem to assume.

thisismypassword · 17/03/2016 09:42

Read it, not seeing anything that outweighs the risk of actually catching menb. Side affects are rare and Kawasaki, though I'd not want any child to have it looks to be less threatening than menb. Again, you've got to weigh up the risks.

Kawasaki disease: Kawasaki disease cannot be prevented but if it is diagnosed and treated promptly, most children will make a full recovery within six to eight weeks.