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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask that people consider giving up leather?

384 replies

Breadandwine · 13/03/2016 12:11

I’ve been a vegan for 13 years. My concerns are animal welfare and global warming, plus I feel it's good for my health.

With regard to animal welfare, I have issues with every aspect of animal husbandry - but I have to be honest, until now, I haven’t given much thought to leather. I avoid it, certainly - it took several years of delicate negotiations before I persuaded my wife to accept a faux leather suite instead of the leather one she wanted - but I’ve always thought leather to be a by-product of the dairy industry.

Not so. An article by Lucy Siegle in this morning’s Observer Magazine brought me up short.

Leather production seems to be worse than other forms of animal cruelty in that humans are suffering too:

"Finally the animals are skinned (in front of each other) in the back streets of Dhaka. The skins are processed in makeshift tanneries with workers, including children, knee deep in toxic chemicals."

OP posts:
LaContessaDiPlump · 16/03/2016 10:16

Oh lord Oliversmumsarmy, I can see why you don't like them :(

I quite agree with you that we can do without a lot - I very rarely feel properly deprived these days.

ThirtyNineWeeks · 16/03/2016 12:12

Sorry about your mum, Oliver.

EmbroideryQueen · 16/03/2016 22:36

Being vegan isn't AFAIK a protected characteristic. This means that it seems to be socially acceptable to take the piss out of vegans in a way it wouldn't be in 2016 with ethnic minorities, gay people, transsexuals, old people, religious people etc....

...... So I'd like everyone who made derogatory comments about vegans to mentally replace "vegan" with "black person / gay person / Muslim" etc, and then consider how much of a predjudiced bigot you sound?

Natsku · 17/03/2016 05:54

The difference is black people and gay people don't try and convert you (religious people are an exception but take for example Jehova's Witnesses - its still generally socially acceptable to take the piss out of them because they try and convert) so vegans can't be considered in the same category as them.

curren · 17/03/2016 05:59

I don't know any black/gay people who are nasty and make people feel like shit and evil for not being black or gay.

I have come across plenty of vegans that do. Usually with piss poor arguments that don't add up and with insight into how awhile their choices are for the planet.

Being Vegan is a choice, I don't know anyone who chose to be black or gay.

There is plenty of debate around religion, lots of derogatory things said around religion. Which is also a choice.

Not saying this is the OP, but my experience in RL.

If you want to start an emotive debate with people that includes putting people down, expect it back. Especially when your argument is shit.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 17/03/2016 07:24

Where are all these vegans running around making people feel shit about themselves and trying to "convert" you? The ones I know just make me really tasty vegan cakes. You lot know the wrong vegans.

CoteDAzur · 17/03/2016 07:31

They are all over Facebook. I can't say they are making me feel anything except amazement and sadness at their self-imposed malnutrition, though.

To each their own and I fully support my friends' right to subsist on non-food like "nutritional yeast", "superfoods", and whatever the popular seed of the year is for them.

CoteDAzur · 17/03/2016 07:33

I wish my vegan friends would make cakes. They can't (don't want to?) cook and seem to run on salads and pasta.

curren · 17/03/2016 07:34

Where are all these vegans running around making people feel shit about themselves and trying to "convert" you? The ones I know just make me really tasty vegan cakes. You lot know the wrong vegans.

I work in the food and fitness industry. You come across a lot of them. The same as I come across a lot of 'eat chicken and rice five times a day to get ripped' . Again with ridiculous arguments that don't make sense

CoteDAzur · 17/03/2016 07:39

"Being vegan isn't AFAIK a protected characteristic. This means that it seems to be socially acceptable to take the piss out of vegan"

Veganism is something people do, not something they are. Taking the piss out of people for stuff they do is fine. Harassing them for something they are (e.g. gay, black) isn't.

Natsku · 17/03/2016 07:43

I had to make vegan cakes for DD's first birthday as she was allergic to dairy and eggs - they weren't tasty, they were shite. Vegan toffee made with coconut cream, however, is delicious!

LaContessaDiPlump · 17/03/2016 08:27

You've got the wrong cake recipe Natsku! There are some shit ones out there, admittedly.

There's a blog called Divine Vegan I think (yes I know the title is cringey) and I received her cookbook for Christmas. Best cakes ever! Worth a look.

In the meantime this is beautiful.....

PinkPjamas · 17/03/2016 08:30

I'd never use leather. I think It's gross, it isn't a by-product despite popular belief, and I find it sticky and uncomfortable (clothes and furniture).

LaContessaDiPlump · 17/03/2016 08:31

Loads of people do things that I consider to be ridiculous. However I don't go up to them and tell them how ridiculous I find them and their choices, because I feel that would be unkind of me and also a bit dickish.

Natsku · 17/03/2016 08:32

Its was probably my rubbish cooking skills tbh LaContessa, took me years to get even normal cake right.

I was in a flea market yesterday and I came across an animal skin, tanned and with the fur still on, but also with the paws and face still there. Was so weird, it still had the claws and nose. Even I felt a bit weird about that, and it wasn't nice soft fur either. Not sure what animal it was, face looked a bit like a badger but not black and white.

fascicle · 17/03/2016 09:01

EmbroideryQueen
Being vegan isn't AFAIK a protected characteristic. This means that it seems to be socially acceptable to take the piss out of vegan

CoteDAzur
Veganism is something people do, not something they are. Taking the piss out of people for stuff they do is fine. Harassing them for something they are (e.g. gay, black) isn't.

Equality Act 2010. Veganism would come under the protected characteristic of Religion or Belief.

CoteDAzur · 17/03/2016 10:19

"Veganism would come under the protected characteristic of Religion or Belief."

Grin Grin Grin

Oh wait. You are serious.

Well, if you can get vegans to agree with you that there is no scientific or rational basis to their reasoning, I guess you can call it a religion.

Good luck with that Grin

LaContessaDiPlump · 17/03/2016 12:28

You're a charmer, Cote Wink

OhShutUpThomas · 17/03/2016 12:55

EmbroideryQueen are you on another, horse related forum under the same name? Just wondering!

Original poster
Breadandwine · 17/03/2016 13:02

Contessa is right, Natsku, there are some lovely vegan cakes out there.

This one's pretty good! Wink

Even my MIL pronounced it 'Quite tasty'! Grin

There's also an egg and milk-free pancake recipe on there - plus other allergy free recipes.

Cote, is there any chance you could extend the same courtesy to other posters as they have extended to you? Flowers

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 17/03/2016 13:17

I love you too, Contessa Smile

OP - I'm not the one who said Veganism should be considered religion. You should be aiming your flowers (and demands for courtesy) at fascicle. Although I don't think she quite thought through the implications of her hasty decision that Veganism is a religion.

2rebecca · 17/03/2016 13:17

I hate these pointless sanctimonious AIBUs where the OP doesn't have a genuine AIBU question as she is convinced she is right and just wants to preach at people.

EmbroideryQueen · 17/03/2016 13:29

Fascicle oh! I genuinely had no idea that protected characteristics included belief, though that would make sense considering Buddhism is only regarded by some as a religion.

Cotedazur
Well, if you can get vegans to agree with you that there is no scientific or rational basis to their reasoning, I guess you can call it a religion.

Protected as a belief Cote, not a religion. But I think you knew that really.

taking the piss out of people for stuff they do is fine No, it isn't in this case Cote, not according to law.

self imposed malnutrition can you explain this? In what way are vegans malnourished? I imagine most of the scientific evidence does not concur!?

they are all over Facebook yes, there's a lot of shit on Facebook though. It's mostly become a forum for data gathering, advertising, other forms of revenue generation.

Natsku
its still generally socially acceptable to take the piss out of them because they try and convert) so vegans can't be considered in the same category as them.
What, so in a scenario where you met a bunch of prostalysing gay people or a bunch of militant Catholics who tried to convert you then all of a sudden it would be OK to take the piss out of all gay and catholic / religious people? Nice.

curren
Unfortunate you've encountered some who have tried to convert you. Not that the quality of their argument matters (as the converting is the bad part) but what sort of things do they say? Isn't the usual reason for being vegan wanting to stop financing something they believe is unethical?

regarding converting people
Yes, it sucks! But it's not just some vegans who do it - it's some cross fitters, some religious people, some parents who try to tell you to send DC to their school. It's just unfortunate and annoying that people do it, but I do believe generally that they are in the minority.

EmbroideryQueen · 17/03/2016 13:32

Ohshutupthomas
No, I'm not a member of any equestrian forums and don't think I ever have been. I stopped riding about 10 years ago and have just read the occasional Horse & Rider since then.

MartinaJ · 17/03/2016 13:41

Yes, it sucks! But it's not just some vegans who do it - it's some cross fitters, some religious people, some parents who try to tell you to send DC to their school. It's just unfortunate and annoying that people do it, but I do believe generally that they are in the minority.

I know a share fair of vegans but only few who aren't trying to push their beliefs down my throat. It's worse than Jehova Witnesses.
The best conversation between vegans and non-vegans was once on a radio. There were two guys from a vegan organization stopping people on the street and trying to explain them that eating meat was wrong. They stopped an old fella who went: Yes, you are right, it's really bad when they are slaughtering animals inhumanely. Clue vegans all happy because they have a sympathizer. To which the old one concludes: They should do it differently, meat tastes better when animals are slaughtered in humane conditions. And how about the horse meat, our beef is so much better.