To ask that people consider giving up leather?

[Breadandwine]

I’ve been a vegan for 13 years. My concerns are animal welfare and global warming, plus I feel it's good for my health.

With regard to animal welfare, I have issues with every aspect of animal husbandry - but I have to be honest, until now, I haven’t given much thought to leather. I avoid it, certainly - it took several years of delicate negotiations before I persuaded my wife to accept a faux leather suite instead of the leather one she wanted - but I’ve always thought leather to be a by-product of the dairy industry.

Not so. An article by Lucy Siegle in this morning’s Observer Magazine brought me up short.

Leather production seems to be worse than other forms of animal cruelty in that humans are suffering too:

"Finally the animals are skinned (in front of each other) in the back streets of Dhaka. The skins are processed in makeshift tanneries with workers, including children, knee deep in toxic chemicals."

Shit hadn't realised it was the OP who did that!
Let's get natsku involved. She owns Europe apparently so should be able to deal with this..

YANBU, OP. We (myself definitely included) are alarmingly able to overlook these things for our own convenience. I appreciate being called up on them from time to time. One day I hope I'll be a good enough person to actually do something about it....

Urgh hate it when people try and convince really ill people to try some nonsense that isn't going to work and isn't scientifically sound. My ex was a bit like that, wouldn't let me take medicines and went to a chiropractor who was trying to get him to buy his shit that his wife sold, took ages for me to convince my ex that he was a quack trying to fleece him for all he had.

I sort of regret my post about the op because it isn't really isn't on topic. I rashly saw the op's name and wrote in haste.

fire you have nothing to regret!

nat i have had people tell me they can cure my pain condition with spices and that i don't need blood thinners as certain spices and foods can do it instead

kali My OH is convinced that all depression can be cured by exercising because that's what works for him but thankfully he doesn't push it on me beyond saying it occasionally.

The op once told me on a thread and then sent me a private message to say that my husband's cancer could be cured by fasting. I paraphrase slightly, but that was the gist. I can safely say that I will not be taking her/his advice on anything.

fireside, I did not tell you that your husband’s cancer could be cured by fasting - I said no such thing, and I find your allegation very upsetting.

I did indeed send you a PM on the subject. But before I get condemned out of hand - although it seems it’s a bit late for that! - I’d like to put my side of the story.

Here’s the relevant part of the PM I sent to you:
“But I know if I was in your position I would want to try anything. Information is power and people can choose to investigate IF or not. There is evidence that IF on its own or IF and chemo in tandem can work to ameliorate the effects of cancer.

I'm only suggesting a possible line of investigation *. You may call IF a crack pot cure - but, please, don't discount the possibility it's more than that. There are well-respected scientists such as Dr Valter Longo investigating and researching it right now.”

(*Italics added.)

For the science behind this, go to the OP of the latest 5:2 diet thread and scroll down until you come to

“Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health”. In that section, you will find several links to scientific studies on IF and Cancer.

fireside, I’m exceedingly glad that your DH has made a complete recovery - that’s good to know.

All I was suggesting was that you look into the science behind IF and cancer. I appreciate that you were under enormous pressure at the time, and that may have coloured your reaction.

But I would appreciate it if you would withdraw your allegation and not repeat it.

Adding the word 'allegedly' does not make that any more acceptable.

You know what OP? I've been a vegan for decades and I cooked every meal from scratch, my husband would only drink on special occasions, never smoked, ate healthy food and never needed medication. He died from cancer a year ago this week. Before he died we had to listen to all sorts of well meaning, pushy, condescending shit advice. If I gave him all the seeds, potions and foods that I was advised, he wouldn't have had room for actual food. You have no idea the upset that you cause people by your unwanted advice. I would advise that, in future, you don't give it unless it's asked for.

Your last post op does not help your case.
You should feel ashamed that you sent that to fire.
I can tell you if you had sent that to me when my father had ben diagnosed i would have been banned from the site for the reply you would have gotten.
Oh, and i am calling it a crack pot cure and i'm sick of crap like this being spread around to people who are sick or have sick loved ones.
You have said it just not in those words.
If you didn't want people repeating it then don't send people stuff like this.

OP do you realise how awful it is to receive 'information' like that at such an awful time.

People did similar while my aunt was dying. Yea it came from a good place, people were desperate to help. But it didn't.

I have seen loads of threads on here where people have been given books saying their chronic condition can be solved by some alternative therapy. It's upsetting and not helpful. Regardless of the intentions.

I say that as someone who 16/8 IF everyday. Not for health benefits but because I find I feel better for it.

Now that you have had your right of reply op, I would appreciate it if this could be left alone now. As I've already said I do regret posting my first reply on here, but only because I'm not one for having public spats on the internet, especially ones unrelated to the subject. I feel bad for derailing and forcing you into defending yourself.

I will happily apologise for my post on here, but not for the content as such. It wasn't just emotion talking either now or at the time and I'm quite clear headed about the nature of my husband's disease and what advice is appropriate. All I ask is that you think twice about sending private messages to posters who have made it clear in a thread that a particular "treatment" is not for them.

I agree that this shouldn't be brought up again and in future I will steer clear of threads like these unless I have something useful to add.

OP, I just want to say that your post has made me think again about the ethics both of leather and of consuming dairy (I don't eat meat). I'm very good at ignoring these things 99% of the time, so I appreciate being made to think again about the consequences of my actions. Which I believe was the point of your post. So thank you for that

Yes thank you OP it was very informative.

My Cayenne still has leather seats and a leather ceiling.

Thank you, fireside. We'll have to agree to differ.

Thanks, Orange and tomato!

So has my Volvo, betsy - but I have had it 15 years!

So you are asking us all to give up leather while you enjoy your leather car seats?

All of us use the leather shoes and bags we own for many years.

I'm still trying to figure out what Oliversmummy uses to cover herself when it's cold.

A lentil-woven cloak?

Sigh...

Cote I'm not asking anyone to give up anything. Please read the thread title.

And I don't want anyone to discard any useful leather items they own. That would be hugely disrespectful to the animals that have already sacrificed their lives.

Thread title says you are asking people to consider giving up leather. So you want us to give up leather. You are hoping we will, after consideration.

While you keep your leather car seats

But you've had it for 15 years - so what? I have leather shoes & bags that are 10-15 years old and still in excellent shape. It is not unusual that a leather item you buy, whether sofa, shoes, or bag lasts for over 10 years. Surely that is part of the appeal.

And animals haven't "sacrificed their lives" ffs. It's not like they have thrown themselves under the knife in a brave effort to save their cow friends

I want to know why Oliversmum eschews carpets.

No, I merely would like people to think about giving up leather.

If, after reading the article I linked to, they still want to use leather, that's up to them. But at least they've thought about it!