to think this might be a child protection/safe guarding issue?

[thickgit]

There's a nursery close by to me. Today, they were playing outside. I very clearly saw male nursery worker laying on his back on the ground, leaning up a bit on his elbows. One girl was laying on her front, on him. Another girl was laying on him, more on his chest.
It looked inappropriate to me so I immediately called nursery and told manager to go outside and see. She was more interested in knowing who I was.

I called back ten minutes later to give her my number. She wanted my name. I wouldn't give it. She was very defensive about the scenario and just wanted to know if I would feel the same if it was a woman. I explained that I've worked in nurseries and would not let children lay on me like this. She said other workers were out there, so she had no issue with it.
What are your thoughts?

So because the two young girls laid over a man, this is concerning because they must have learned this form somewhere? Really?

Wow.

The op saw a very brief glimpse. She doesn't know what happened before or after. For that moment it appeared he wasn't talking.

Would how many in here who are finding
Concern in this, will also be concerned and think it's inappropriate when reality dawns on you that he will also assist them in the
Toilet.

Would you be happy for your dd to do this?

The OP did not know what happened before or after etc, etc that is why she reported it. Staff know the children and the teacher so can put it all into perspective.

Of course teachers take the children to the toilet whilst they are in their care, there will be policies about that too.

So the op expects the manager to drop everything that she may be doing and run out to the garden to witness something that an anonymous member of the public thinks is inappropriate even though the manager has explained that she doesn't have any issues with the staff and their behaviour?
And the Op thinks the manager is being unreasonable?

why would I have a problem with my dd's climbing over a man?
And no I wouldn't and didn't have an issue with my sons climbing over females.

Yes there are policies in place, and a number of policies say a single member of staff can take the child to the toilet.. It's just to safe guard their staff some places opt for two members of staff

Although it makes reports easier to investigate if someone gives their name, an anonymous report is not a reason to take that report less seriously. The manager of the nursery needs updating on basic safeguarding procedures.

Cleaty
I think that may be down to the managers employers to decide rather than a random person on the Internet

This is the second thread I have read recently where male nursery staff have been given a hard time! My nephew is training to be a nursery worker and I hope no one gives him any difficulty!

DH works with me and I put a picture in our newsletter of him lying on the grass this week with his arms around 2 little girls and a little boy lying full length on top of him as they watched the clouds. No negative comments from parents at all.

By all means raise a concern, but don't assume anything is wrong.

It's not all about the staff. The behaviours of children can throw up signs of things happening to them or around them outside of school.

Yup. Seems no progress has been made at all. I remember having the same conversation 20 years ago when a male worked at my sons nursery. A few ignorant parents wanting him sacking, because a male couldn't possibly be trusted. They used to get a lot of anonymous tip offs about the him. I found this out eventually because one of the tip offs sounded like it had to do with my child.

This could be the reason why the manager wants a name. Because this shit is still happening.

What behaviour would that be? That the girls are in a loving home that is free from gender prejudices?

Everything has to mean something. It cannot possibly be the playful innocence of children.

Yes, he should probably not have had a child lying on top of him,in his professional interests, but you don't actually know what was going on.

But do all men become voracious sexual predators at the slightest touch,/bit of pressure , accidental or otherwise, to their nether regions??? Because that is what you seem to be implying.

I don't think you were particularly wrong to point it out , but I think the WAY in which you did it was a bit...well...odd.

Of course it can be playful innocence! I never said it had to mean something! As I said before the staff will know the children and male staff member involved and be able to put it all into perspective. The OP does not have that knowledge.

Her concern may well be very misplaced.

My point was that it would be highly unlikely for the male staff member to do anything along those lines actually IN school in full view of everyone. BUT it MAY be something to look into re the girls. Having said that, the school know who their vulnerable children are (if any) and will be able to decide whether anymore needs to be done.

For all the joy of giving you a good kicking on here, I don't think it's a good idea to be aggressive to someone trying to raise a potential issue.

There's a difference between protecting staff, and the deliberate dismissal and closing down people trying to do the right thing.

I think it shows a level of immaturity and a lack of confidence in her own nursery to behave in such an overly defensive manner on the phone.

And of course it hasn't even had the intended effect, as its increased the OPs concern, as the manager has shown that she has no intention of taking any action whatsoever.

She has left the OP wondering whether she should be reporting it to someone else who might react in a more professional manner.

All so unnecessary. All so antagonistic.

Jamdonut, I am not implying that at all, and have said so over and over again.
Throughout this thread, it is very clear that many posters are not reading the entire thread.
How would you have pointed it out Jamdonut?

op, ywnbu. The manager however was . She only had to go and look . Paedophiles go where their intended targets are available. A nursery school is the logical place for those who targeting that age group. I wd not want my cc to lie down on top of anyone's body. No sensible teacher wd allow that to happen-far less lie down on the ground when doing playground duty. Your next move shd be to report the manager to the Gov body that oversees nurseries. What's with the weird barrage of responses attacking and ridiculing an op who was concerned and did something about it?

Statistically challenged
The OP was talking about sexual abuse and craftysam said that children more likely to be a used by female, just pointing out that whereas that's true it's because females make up the majority of carers at home or in childcare setting.
But even taking that into consideration "sexual abuse" still overwhelming carried out by men. It's a fact

"Dolly, have you never seen any news reports about child abuse in school or nursery settings?"
I've seen many more reports about child abuse in family settings. Does that mean that fathers and grandfathers must never be left alone with their children, never allowed to have them in bed with them, never be allowed to bath them or change their nappies?

So if it happens more at home nobody should be concerned about it happening in schools or nurseries?
What Thickgit witnessed was a crossing of boundaries or as Catkind explained, a failure to teach proper boundaries, which can contribute to further problems.

If crossing of boundaries was witnessed at home then you would expect the witness to be concerned, no? You would expect the witness to stay vigilant, right? Not dismiss what they saw in their haste to be politically correct and patronise a man by being astonished he stooped to give baths to his own children or grandchildren, or change their nappies.

I'm aware the OP was talking about sexual abuse. I can read, funnily enough. No where have I said it's not a fact, I was pointing out that CraftySam didn't specify sexual abuse in the comment which you picked her up for.

She said "Have you considered that most abuse taking place in nurseries is perpetrated by women?"

You replied with "Are you seriously suggesting sexual abuse in nurserys more likely to be carried out by women?"

To which I commented saying that she hadn't mentioned sexual abuse at all and if you looked at overall abuse she was probably correct. You seem to be doing a lot of correcting people for things they didn't actually say or mean.

Am I reading this? A young male worker allowing children to play like children instead of expecting them to sit at desks and conform...........
If this is such a concern why have you not reported this as a safeguarding issue rather than having an anonymous moan to the manager?

Phew. Finally, some sensible posts.
That's reassuring, thank you. Fortunately, I'm able to handle people being hostile, rude, and somewhat ridiculous. I'm even happy to have my grammar corrected and be reminded that I'm thick. I'm confident that I'm a grounded, friendly and positive person. What troubles me though is the way posters sometimes almost gang up and can be quite vicious towards people who maybe cannot handle it. I recently posted on a thread where a woman was being absolutely torn to bits, despite posters aware that that particular OP had mental health problems :-( As soon as I, and others, started to challenge the people who were being unkind, those posters seemed to back off. What I'm trying to say is thank you to those who have written more clearly and eloquently what it is that I have being trying to say. I appreciate it.

For what it's worth OP, I've worked in various childcare settings over a decade or so and this would've been considered inappropriate in all of them.

Physical contact was not discouraged, such as reciprocating a hug from an upset child, or playing physical games but allowing a child, not your own offspring, to lie atop your body the way you describe would have been raised as an issue. So would tickling or asking for kisses (do people really do that? I'm genuinely shocked that it's permitted frankly)

I'm glad some people are thoughtful about what happens to children , if all her policies were in order and being carried out by her staff the manager had nothing to fear. Whilst it's not the most pleasant task dealing with concerns from members of the public (I've heard much more far fetched ones than yours!) is part of our job.

Thanks Carefully. I've worked with children, in various capacities, for over twenty years. Throughout that time I have had training and it has consistently taught me not to put myself or a child in a vulnerable position. What you do at home with your own children and what you do at work, in a profession setting, with other peoples' children are two different things.
To the poster who was shot down for mentioning that the behaviour of a child can indicate something sinister occurring at home or else where. . . You're quite right. For those of you looking for an opportunity to flame me and pick everything apart and turn it into something that I'm so clearly not saying. . . I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that this was the case with the scenario I witnessed.

I wonder how the father of that small girl would've reacted if he'd seen his daughter lying on the male nursery worker like that? Thousand pounds says he would've gone over & pulled her off.

Op are the sensinle pists by any chance the ones that agree with you
I used to lie on top of my dad as a child, no abuse going on.
Amazing.
People aren't looking for an opportunity, the majority don't agree with you!
Why bother posting if you're only interested in posts that agree with you