to think this might be a child protection/safe guarding issue?

[thickgit]

There's a nursery close by to me. Today, they were playing outside. I very clearly saw male nursery worker laying on his back on the ground, leaning up a bit on his elbows. One girl was laying on her front, on him. Another girl was laying on him, more on his chest.
It looked inappropriate to me so I immediately called nursery and told manager to go outside and see. She was more interested in knowing who I was.

I called back ten minutes later to give her my number. She wanted my name. I wouldn't give it. She was very defensive about the scenario and just wanted to know if I would feel the same if it was a woman. I explained that I've worked in nurseries and would not let children lay on me like this. She said other workers were out there, so she had no issue with it.
What are your thoughts?

Of course it's impossible to make a judgement without having witnessed it myself. But I don't have a problem with the situation. We should teach our children healthy boundaries without demonising touch.

Catkind, that's totally normal for nurseries
Staff are used to supervising the whole group as its expected that the other staff do have to have one on one interactions with children

Maybe the reason the nursery manager wanted your name was so she could ascertain you weren't some regular mad complainer who sees imaginary issues in everything.

Nope, never complained before. My last call was to Pizza Express, to give them positive feedback about the guy who lead the party.

It wasn't a complaint. It was an observation that I thought she may have appreciated me sharing. Because she was so dismissive, it's left me wondering what the best thing to do is.

The best thing to do is nothing.

It's like banging my head against a wall.

1:1 time is an expensive resource, they don't waste it lying around in our nursery any more than they do in school.

I don't get it. My daughter is at a (private) nursery. A young male carer recently joined the 2-5 room. She loves hiM. Plays in the home corner loads with him. He has taught them cool tricks like how to get dressed. In the last monthly nursery newsletter, the manager flagged up that several parents had been gossiping and making negative remarks / raising suspicions about why a young man would work in a nursery. I find it awful. I bet they would have been horrified to see physical contact too; I however have a very tactile and clambering type toddler and would assume they were playing some kind of game, especially as there were other staff outside too. And I'm pretty sure our nursery manager would have given you short shrift too.

*how to get dressed = how to put their coats on like a superhero

Dolly, have you never seen any news reports about child abuse in school or nursery settings?

I've seen many more reports about child abuse in family settings. Does that mean that fathers and grandfathers must never be left alone with their children, never allowed to have them in bed with them, never be allowed to bath them or change their nappies?

catkind, OP says the nursery worker was up on his elbows. He was able to keep an eye on more than the two children he was interacting with.

Im a scout leader and in the past we've played corners and then another leader has shouted 'Chips!' and they've all raced to me. I've had around 10 beaver scouts hanging onto me for dear life.

Is that inappropriate too? Or is it ok because im female.

Look, these children are touching her breasts, albeit clothed breasts
Is this inappropriate behaviour?

Anytime someone reports a child protection concern it should be noted and investigated. No a manager should not give someone short shrift for reporting concerns. She can explain why it is not a child protection issue.

So the manager was totally in the wrong here.

SideOrder, not one person has said all touch is inappropriate. What OP said and I don't think I'm the only one to agree with is that lying around on top of a carer is inappropriate. I don't think OP even objected to clambering on as part of a game. Would you lie down with two beavers on top of you and leave your colleagues to look after the rest? Would a TA in a reception class? I very much doubt it.

In all safeguarding issues it is the perception of what could be happening that is all important. In this particular case I think it's absolutely right that it was brought to the attention of the nursery manager. Not everyone who is 'touchy-feely' is a paedophile, however abusers will often push the boundaries of acceptable physical behaviour gradually until it is accepted by colleagues as normal for that person. Combined with the manager's reaction I think I would avoid this nursery like the plague.

I agree topnan. I have read an account of a scout worker who was touchy feely and wrote that he abused the boys in front of the parents, without them even realising.

No a manager should not give someone short shrift for reporting concerns.

I think they're entitled to take it less seriously when the person reporting won't give their name. If a manager is going to take this sort of issue further, she needs to know whether the witness is reliable or has form for kicking up a fuss about nothing and, in particular, whether they're prepared to stand by what they have said in the event that it becomes necessary to discipline the worker or take criminal proceedings. Neither disciplinary nor safeguarding action can get very far if the witness won't stand by what she says and can't be traced.

No-one denied the incident occurred, if they want a witness statement they can just ask the carer or the other staff who were around. Question is if it's inappropriate or not and whether the member of staff should be advised not to do it again.

Anyone who demands my name in an aggressive manner won't get it. My aim was for her to get out there as quickly as possible so the she could witness it for herself.
As for legal proceedings, I would have no problem what so ever in giving my name. I have no need or desire to remain anonymous if it was necessary to be a witness. She has my number and that's plenty.

What Topnan and cleaty describe is the kind of thing I've had training on. It doesn't mean I'm paranoid, OR that I have an issue with men, it just means I'm observant and believe in taking measures to reduce the chances of abuse and the chances of false allegations.

Craftysam1
Are you seriously suggesting sexual abuse in nurserys more likely to be carried out by women?
Most Sexual abuse is carried out by men, on both female and male children.
I'm not saying it's common but sexual abuse is overwhelming carried out by males either at home or in care settings

Just adding this to backup what I posted earlier
www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets/documents/information-service/research-briefing-people-who-abuse-children1.pdf?_t_id=1B2M2Y8AsgTpgAmY7PhCfg%3D%3D&_t_q=serious+case+reviews&_t_tags=language%3Aen%2Csiteid%3A7f1b9313-bf5e-4415-abf6-aaf87298c667&_t_ip=66.249.78.109&_t_hit.id=Nspcc_Web_Models_Media_GenericMedia/_b08e3d1e-1c5a-4695-bb98-5ee74106816a&_t_hit.pos=110

I would be more concerned over the fact that 2 young girls were lying on the male teacher. I know that he is a known man to them, but really?

He may be as clean as clean as a whistle but where does that behaviour come from in the girls lives?

I think CraftySams point might have related to the ratio of male to female carers, and she also didn't specifically say sexual abuse. I've skimmed so may have missed it but I don't think the link you've provided actually specifies for nursery settings and also states that for various reasons abuse by women may be under-reported/recorded.

If you look at all abuse (e.g. Physical/Emotional/Neglect as well as Sexual) then given the very high ratio of female:male carers in nurseries what CraftySam said probably isn't unreasonable.