to think this might be a child protection/safe guarding issue?

[thickgit]

There's a nursery close by to me. Today, they were playing outside. I very clearly saw male nursery worker laying on his back on the ground, leaning up a bit on his elbows. One girl was laying on her front, on him. Another girl was laying on him, more on his chest.
It looked inappropriate to me so I immediately called nursery and told manager to go outside and see. She was more interested in knowing who I was.

I called back ten minutes later to give her my number. She wanted my name. I wouldn't give it. She was very defensive about the scenario and just wanted to know if I would feel the same if it was a woman. I explained that I've worked in nurseries and would not let children lay on me like this. She said other workers were out there, so she had no issue with it.
What are your thoughts?

"As a bloke threads like this make me want to tear my hair out. When my DSS and DD were little I used to take them into a wacky warehouse with ball pools, soft climbing areas etc and have a whale of a time not only with them but other kids joining in to. I was jumped on, climbed on, pelted with balls, buried in balls etc. None of the attendant staff or parents/guardians had any issue and were relaxed and happy their kids were having fun. I even received words from them it was great I was getting involved Yet, apparently in 2016 this would be total,y inappropriate for no other reasoning than I have a penis."

As a bloke you should be asking yourself why society sets the bar so low for men. This is what should bother you.

Comments like these should tell you that the reason you stood out is that society has written off the 'involvement' of men when it comes to small children, possibly for a lot of sound reasons.

Can you not see how society's desperation for men to be 'involved' without any sensible rules of engagement, and so many willing to see only the positive, could make it possible for someone to harm children right under their parents' noses?

Where is the judgement and common sense here on the part of any of the adults involved?

Think about Jimmy Savile for a minute. So many people falling over themselves that a celebrity walked among them, deigned to visit children in hospital and Children's Homes. Before I get rocks thrown at me for suggesting every man is a potential Jimmy Savile, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that people need to respect men more, hold men to higher standards, and thus expect all men to be as 'involved' as some are, and not to allow giddy excitement at seeing one playing with children to cloud sensible appraisal.

Dolly -- no stone was left unturned in the formation of that policy. So therefore 'no kissing on the mouth' is included, because it is correctly assumed that judgement and common sense and a sense of proper boundaries cannot be relied upon. The general tone is to warn strenuously against physical contact and verbal-emotional 'relationships'. The whole document (not C&P'd) has several more pages concerning situations that might arise with youth workers, and teachers for older children. The people who sign the code of conduct are professionals with university degrees in early childhood education all the way up to end of secondary education, as well as teacher's aides and professionals who work with special education and care of vulnerable adults.

The problem here is not what the man intended (or didn't!) but the fact the manager was dismissive of a safe guarding call. Protocol should have been to take notes and thank the caller, assuring them that the incident would be investigated and dealt with in the most appropriate way. [SugarDiabetes]
I agree with this 100%.
And then it should have been observed and investigated, and serious thought given to it.

The problem here is not what the man intended (or didn't!) but the fact the manager was dismissive of a safe guarding call. Protocol should have been to take notes and thank the caller, assuring them that the incident would be investigated and dealt with in the most appropriate way.[SugarDiabetes]
I agree with this 100%.
And then it should have been observed and investigated, and serious thought given to it.

Yay!!! That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Have you considered that most abuse taking place in nurseries is perpetrated by women?
I would love to have a male role model in a nursery as unfortunately not all children have one at home, but then there are people like you who think they can force their own opinions onto everyone else.
I work in a nursery and am regularly found on the floor with 3 or 4 children trying to sit on my knees, even if we are building with bricks or playing with the dolls house. Is this inappropriate? Children are drawn to adults who show them respect and are willing to give them attention.
To be honest I am more concerned where you were to be able to see the children playing outside and why you would not leave your details if you were as concerned as you say you were!

I've worked with children and young people, some of whom were vulnerable, for nearly 20 years. I'm thankful none of my employers have made me sign a policy which "correctly assumed that judgement and common sense and a sense of proper boundaries cannot be relied upon." I'm grateful they expected me to exercise professional ethics, values and judgement in the role I'd trained for, alongside ensuring I had relevant police checks and necessary training and supervision. So it's probably best we agree to disagree on the merits of that policy.

I think I might step away from this thread now...we're beginning to repeat ourselves as opposed to having a discussion (I know, I know...it's in AIBU so I am BU to expect anything less!)

The trouble is, OP, that in effect you stifled any investigation at birth by refusing to give your name. If the nursery owner felt it necessary to take any disciplinary action she wouldn't have been able to because there would have been no usable evidence of the alleged wrongdoing.

The nursery owner does not need OPs name to look at safeguarding issues.

Yay!!! That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

I disagree, that is not what you said in your OP.

I disagree as well Libitina. The ops posts have all been about the person having a penis and ops hang ups about men.

Why wouldn't you give your name?

Have you made previous complaints to the nursery?

Was it like this OP? Albeit with a smaller, female child.

What I am saying is that people need to respect men more, hold men to higher standards, and thus expect all men to be as 'involved' as some are,

And yet look at the attitude of some people when they do get involved.

It wasn't too dissimilar to that pic. I appreciate that what I saw was a snapshot, but it was long enough to see that there was no conversation, they just appeared to be relaxing. He wasn't flat on his back like that, but one of the girls was lying him just like that.

The nursery owner does not need OPs name to look at safeguarding issues.

Yes, she does, if she is to take any action on them.

I'm not surprised the manager was dismissive she probably thought you were a windup!
A non event and you wouldn't even leave your name ( even though you are a voice for the children!!) no wonder she didn't take you seriously.
I've never felt so depressed at a thread.
Kids are having fun at nursery but you want that to stop because it doesn't fit in with what you think is acceptable?
You want them to have more training and adjust their guidelines, why? Because you think it's wrong?
It seems you are the one with issues, you think of everything in a sexual sort of way, when it isn't.
I have no idea where to start about the hugs
I've never hugged my friends male or female differently. I've never once thought "oh no our genitalia may touch"
You want a nursery worker to feel like he's done wrong just because he's male and it doesn't fit in with your views?
Really really sad. We will end up with no men doing these sort of jobs and i can't say i'll blame them!

phequer
I would be very uncomfortable with my four year old getting into bed with any teenager

I'm not sure if many of you know how common sexual abuse is or if you just bury your head in the sand..

Whole sentences are preferable when quoting people.
What I am saying is that people need to respect men more, hold men to higher standards, and thus expect all men to be as 'involved' as some are, and not to allow giddy excitement at seeing one playing with children to cloud sensible appraisal.
Giddy excitement is the attitude when they do get involved, and that will lead to problems.

Dolly, have you never seen any news reports about child abuse in school or nursery settings?

And you are a childminder!! Shocking views!! One crucial factor you have not said in your post was that you did also point out that he was BLACK. What has that got to do with playing with children....

Op emphasis was also on his race.....not just his actions but his colour.....paints a whole different picture when you add that element huh? ......she was irked by the colour of his skin and then his relaxed playful nature and thought it cant be right. Op hasnt included his skin colour here so she can feel justified in her post...

Did she actually say that though Phatface? I just remember her saying he was a different colour from the child.

The OP did not make a point of his colour. It was asked if the child could be the nursery worker's child. She pointed out they were completely different colours so probably not.

PhatFace. You can sod right off. Read again. And who the fuck said I was a childminder!?

The op only mentioned race as it meant there was no way the worker could be the parent of the child.
We have no idea what race either of them are.

I honestly don't get the view of men that some women have. Sometimes they are all abusers who shouldn't be allowed to be near children. Other times they are all patriarchs who won't work with children because the pay is too bad.

Nothing to do with men and women IMO. Lying around on top of a carer, fine for a baby, by 3-4 they have learned different social conventions. And if they haven't their teachers should be starting to teach that. Not that the carer likely has bad intentions, but by failing to establish boundaries they could be making children vulnerable to those who do have bad intentions.
Lying around on top of someone is much more intimate than having a cuddle, sitting on a knee while doing something, clambering on as part of a game.
Also the teachers are busy in nursery. This carer ignoring all the other kids and staring at the clouds - that leaves another teacher trying to supervise an extra 2-6 kids depending on age and ratios?

Catkind. . . If only I'd put it like that. You've got it in one.