To ask Brexit or Bremain?

[LittleLionMansMummy]

Just a snap poll really:

I'm an innie.

In

I'm not scared of leaving the EU I just think that we gain such a lot from it. We have free trade with Europe for our imports and exports which saves us money and also creates jobs . The EU will of course continue to trade with us but we wont have such favourable terms. I also think we benefit in terms of long term peace and cohesion.
I have researched my views and I know the EU is far from perfect and it annoys me that the stay campaign perceive the out vote as small minded as I think there are some real issues that need to be listened too, addressed and fixed. But on balance I think we should stay in.

The EU politicians make too much out of it to give us a clear and unbiased picture. Makes researching it much more difficult. I don't want the economy to tank. I don't want us to have zero controls over our borders and laws - eg being told that we can't cut child benefit for children who don't even live here, when many british children are living in poverty

100% in. Although there are problems and a lot of red tape, the EU has done so much for us (much of which the general public don't appreciate/understand, myself included until I started looking into it). It's likely that many people's jobs will be affected if we leave. Nobody knows what the impact of leaving would be, but overnight things will change and I'm confident it'll be for the worse. We will have no negotiating power and there will be little incentive for Europe to agree to decent terms with us. Why would they? We've just stuck two fingers up at them so they're hardly going to be keen to acquiesce to our demands post Brexit. If anything they'll want to make an example of us.

Giving us a good deal risks destabilising the EU project entirely. They will punish us for leaving.

Do we really want to be part of such a small-minded group? The politicians care more about 'The Project' than about people. They don't have to care about the electors because they aren't elected. There is such a democratic deficit.

Didn't mean to come across as goady but I have just been reading about loss of workers rights if we leave the Eu. (Sickness leave, maternity and holiday) we will be much like America who don't have these policies. I suppose most people voting out are either retired or self employed (or rich)

Out

In

I have just been reading about loss of workers rights if we leave the Eu.

Reading what exactly? It's all speculation.
That's the trouble with this debate - nobody knows, there are few facts so it's all open to scaremongering and bias.

Followyourart Why do you think the Sickness/Maternity leave etc would change if we left the EU?

Who has decided that we will become like America?

These are UK laws that can't just be changed on a whim. It's just scare tactics by those who desperately want to stay In.

Personally I think we'll be more like America if we stay in the EU.

Once TTIP takes hold, we're fucked.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

The Tories can change anything they want on a whim. Without protection of the Eu though, they have free reign.
Conclusion is, either way we're fucked I think..

Out

The Tories can change anything they want on a whim.

Why single out Tories? Any Government with a majority can enact policy, it's called democracy. I want that free reign, otherwise known as self governance.
We can vote them out if we don't like it. I can't vote out EU councillors or commissioners.

The Tories can change anything they want on a whim.

In theory yes, but in practice if they do something the electorate doesn't like they will get voted out and the other lot can change it back again. That's how democracy works.

Or at least that's true if we leave and go back to being a sovereign nation. If we're in the EU and they do something we don't like we can't vote them out and we can't refuse it. And the law can never be repealed.

I don't know why so many people are convinced that the EU is on the side of socialism against the nasty Tories. Look at TTIP. Look at what they've done to left-wing governments in the southern states. And the key difference is that while we can vote out governments that get too rabid as a sovereign nation, as a vassal state of the EU we can't.

In

Out

The Tories can change anything they want on a whim.

I don't actually believe this as we've already heard Tory Cabinet Ministers saying they have been prevented from doing things they wanted to, for instance road safety measures that came into conflict with EU rules

but

Don't think that Labour will be able to change what they want to do on a whim. Things like renationalisation of railways and public subsidy of the steel sector are prohibited by the EU. Will we then finally hear some Labour moans about the EU 'stopping is doing what we want'?

This is not a pink and fluffy EU that has the welfare of its citizens uppermost. It is a brutal organisation that has treated Greek ruthlessly and has dithered and prevaricated as millions of refugees and migrants have rushed to Europe.

One day it might be a very right-wing organisation. The right-wing is rising in EU member countries. If these parties eventually become national Governments they will be sending their right-wing politicians to Brussels. Are you prepared to be controlled by a Europe-wide hard right organisation? Because if you welcome what you perceive as the Left wing socialism of the EU tying Cameron's hands, you must also be prepared for the right-wing ultra-authoritarian EU one day that may tie Labour's hands. And you will be stuck with it.

Innie

Out

Out.

Control our own borders, we don't want the gangs of misogynists that are terrorising Sweden and Germany arriving here clutching their EU passports in a year or so.

Out

I have researched it and will be voting Out.

In.

Do those of you who vote Out think it might be the start of the end for the UK? Scotland as a whole is pro-Europe, so a Brexit would lead for a call for another indy referendum, possibly with a different outcome. NI is pretty pro EU too - a Brexit would speed the pressure for a border poll, and could be the stepping stone to a united Ireland.