To ask Brexit or Bremain?

[LittleLionMansMummy]

Just a snap poll really:

I'm an innie.

In

Brexit just sounds like a breakfast bar. If I start craving belvitas over the next few months i blame Farage.

The conservative govt have shown no compassion towards the vulnerable in society nor recognised how oppressed and marginalised certain groups remain. Therefore, it isn't a long stretch to suggest that they won't give a shit about the aforementioned when it comes to re-writing the human rights act. I have serious concerns about the implementation of various other important pieces of legislation e.g. equality act and mental capacity act.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The CBI is hardly independent.

It has received nearly £1million in funding from the European Commission in the last 7 years and received a further £5.1million from the public sector and £7million from taxpayer-funded quangos over the same period

Even the former CBI Director Digby Jones is recommending LEAVE.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/616502/UK-business-organisation-investigation-fiddled-pro-EU-poll

Alternatively.

Business for Britain say you'd be £933 better off by Leaving.
businessforbritain.org/2015/06/23/chapter-31-how-households-could-be-933-better-off-through-lower-prices/

It should not be about x promises you this while y promises you that, neither of which are provable. It should be about the right to self-determination. We liberated Kuwait and the Falkland Islands to give them back their sovereignty and self-determination. That's how important they are.

So why are we so keen to toss away our own sovereignty and self-determination?

Springing To be fair, it's hard to get unbiased info on most sides. My heart is going with in as I am very concerned about the human rights issues. I believe that the money and right to self-determination means nothing if we cannot protect our vulnerable. That said, I'm a lefty, bleeding heart social worker with a loud voice about equality, so it's "my thing".

The conservative govt have shown no compassion towards the vulnerable in society nor recognised how oppressed and marginalised certain groups remain. Therefore, it isn't a long stretch to suggest that they won't give a shit about the aforementioned when it comes to re-writing the human rights act.

Don't think the EU is a soft and fluffy organisation. Look how brutally they treated Greece. You may not trust Cameron but at least you can vote him out of power and replace him with a different Government. Or is this an admission form the Left that they will never see another Labour Government. Be careful, because if you ever do elect another labour Govt it's hands will be tied by the EU just as much as you think the EU currently ties Cameron's hands. The EU will impose its austerity on Labour spending proposals, just as it has on Greece's. Better to

I have serious concerns about the implementation of various other important pieces of legislation e.g. equality act and mental capacity act

Those laws we already have will stand. Why on earth would the Tories want to repeal the equality act or mental capacity act. What purpose would that serve. That's just bordering on paranoia.

If you want to worry about legislation then worry about TTIP which the EU is going to force on us and which will open up our public services to privatisation. So when big American corps finally get their hands on our NHS it will be because the REMAIN voters let them instead of voting OUT of the EU and therefore OUT of TTIP. I wouldn't like to think I played a part in what happens to the NHS via TTIP by voting to stay in the EU. And it'll be no good trying to blame that on the Tories.

Out.
Obviously (it's a no brainer)

I really love this perverse view being expressed of

'I don't trust the Tories so I'll help Dave win his referendum vote'.

It must take some real mental gymnastics to square away that one.

outie

100% out.

"Those laws we already have will stand. Why on earth would the Tories want to repeal the equality act or mental capacity act. What purpose would that serve. That's just bordering on paranoia."

The implementation of those pieces of legislation could very much be affected. The mental capacity act is based on human rights. The deprivation of liberty safeguards protect human rights. Scameron and crew have done zilch to suggest they are looking after the welfare of the vulnerable; slashing the social care budget. How are social workers meant to go out and ensure people aren't being deprived of their liberty and human rights if we ain't got the resources? I'm going off topic slightly but I know the legislation well and I know what we need.

I'd like to see a decent example of this govt doing something that proves they give a teeny tiny crap about human rights.

Zaryiah

I agree, the financial nonsense is just that.

My heart is going with in as I am very concerned about the human rights issues.

Surely the best way of protecting your Human Rights is to be living in a democratic country that has sovereignty and self-determination and where you have a regular say in electing those who govern you? I really don't understand this idea that the EU protects Human Rights. It has trampled on the human rights of the Greek people by binding them into a poverty=trap they can never afford to escape. It is about to trample on the human rights of those migrants who are stranded in Greece and who are about to be traded for people and money with a country that has a very poor human rights record. This infringement of human rights doesn't seem to worry the EU. It worries me and I am a LEAVE voter.

I believe that the money and right to self-determination means nothing if we cannot protect our vulnerable. That said, I'm a lefty, bleeding heart social worker with a loud voice about equality, so it's "my thing".

Again, if you want to protect your vulnerable do not hand control of their rights and services to a third party like the EU. Uncontrolled migration of EU citizens wishing to exercise their right to come and live in the Uk is already reducing the services available to the vulnerable that have been living here all their lives. TTIP will open our public services to competition. It's the vulnerable, those from whom a private company cannot extract a profit who will be worse affected. As you are a social worker you will probably have seen first-hand examples of what I have mentioned. My own social worker friend certainly has.

Out

Out

Out! No doubt about it!

How come it's such a stark choice? I gather many people would like to stay in, with reform, rather than leave altogether. It would be a pain in the arse to instigate a Europe wide democratic reform - understatement - but it is important. Is it just the hassle of going back to the drawing board outweighs the hassle of a possible brexit ?

Out.

Some fucker needs to leave this abusive relationship, I don;t know why we're so scared.

Probably in. Can see some arguments to support out - mainly sovereignty.

But the main reason I'll probably vote in is that to sustain our high level of exports to the EU at the same cost we will want tariff free access to the EU markets. To get this we would have to comply with the much hated EU requirements, including free movement of people. So it won't take us any further forward

From a selfish perspective I want to vote out. I'm a farmer and would rather we lost subsidy and land prices dropped by the 30% that had been predicted if Brexit occurs. It's not just about wonky veg with the EU. We have a lot of rules to follow. Problem is a lot of Southern Europe doesn't follow these rules & therefor imports their food cheaper. It's slowly changing but too slowly for me.

I'm yet to decide whether I think it's a good idea overall or not. Trying to read lots about it to get some ideas.

Bollocks-deep in.

The fact that BoJo and IDS want out is enough to tell me we should stay in.

If the result is out, I don't intend to stay here long. I'd rather be European than British right now.

Crimson this link explains Brexit very clearly - ie what is the current position, what is the new deal won by Cameron, and what would be the implications if we leave.

Making sense of Brexit

mummyjah

Your cons list for being in was pretty much the same for me in the Scottish referendum.

This is how I feel about Scotland with regards to Westminster. We have little to no say in many laws that affect us. We are governed by a party the majority of us didn't vote for.

After doing my research I'm an outtie, which has surprised me if I'm honest.

In. Rash stupidity to tear up our trade agreement with our major trading partner.

We will have to renegotiate our trade deals with each individual country which will take years, a decade even.

And because us leaving will bring instability to the Europe project it won't be politically expedient for the other countries to offer us good terms as they won't want other countries to follow suit.

We run the risk of being financially screwed, and then having to jump through massive hoops to agree a trade deal with whichever country decides it's in their interests to offer us a lifeline.

You think Brussels rules on straight banana are a threat to Britishness? I'd take that over our school system and hospitals being run by US companies any day!