To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

Also if the school says that Jenny should not change with the girls after PE or use the girls loos, why should they think it's a good idea to have Jenny sharing a dorm whilst away from school?
Surely the issues raised by jenny using the grils changing room/showers/loos will be the same whilst away and sleeping int eh dorm?

I do notice that the school doesn't think it's suitable for Jenny to share all the girls facilities. So I assume that this would also include sharing a dorm.

Just because people disagree doesn't mean they are ignorant or right-wing. Some of us have come out the other side of this. I'm a lefty right-on liberal bleeding heart. I simply understand that sex is an actual biological fact and gender is a social construct.

Because your stereo typing Jenny and if that's the case we know how naughty boys can be and how high there testosterone is so of course if Jenny is in the boy room she will be bullied or worse rape because she thinks she is female so yes she will be vulnerable no of course this won't happen its ridiculous and so is think that Jeremy can't be with the girls

But do we believe that a penis is the defining factor that makes someone male? Does your vagina make you feel more female? Gender is about so much more than that!

How about children born intersex having ambiguous or multiple genitalia? Do we define them on their genitals or accept its more than that?

If a man has his penis removed after an accident does he stop becoming male?

If we accept that genitals don't decide your gender than we accept that Jenny is female in which case there is no issue!

But surely this isn't about being supportive of Jenny/the LGBT community, OP? I haven't RTFT, but I've read all of your posts, and I can't see evidence of you looking to support Jenny. To me, it just looks like you're either being nosey about her sleeping arrangements/borderline offensive if you do bring this up to the school, as it has no impact at all on your position as parent of a male student.

I'm sure Jenny will have a bedroom and changing facilities of her own.

There's no way the school would allow a boy (sex) to share with the girls.

It doesn't seem that OPs DS is likely to be sharing a room with Jenny so I am struggling to see how it affects them. Presumably neither Jenny, nor her friends (nor their parents) have an objection to the proposed sleeping arrangements. As a parent of teenage DCs I would be happy with whatever arrangements they were happy with. DCs have always had mixed sleepovers and I have never thought anything if it. Their friends are a mix of genders / sexualities and nobody really seems to stress over it.

YABU. Jenny would be very vulnerable in a male dorm. Surely if she stays with her close friends, it's not an issue. These girls already trust her enough to be friends.

The issue is not one about the feelings or views of one individual alone, those feelings do not take priority.

Zariyah

Because no woman has ever been raped by a male friend

Well said Zariyah!

These girls know Jenny better than any of us here, if they are friends with Jenny, trust Jenny and are happy to share with Jenny than what's the problem.

I know my 13 year old would be horrified to share with a boy so if these girls are secure enough in their knowledge that Jenny is in fact a girl than that's good enough for me.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363.php

medical definition of sex and gender
HTH

still think jenny should have a separate room

I would be interested in a social workers view on all these parents happy for gangs of teens sleeping together overnight.

Alis - are you really insinuating that a 14 year old child is a rapist because they happen to be trans?

All I was saying is that perhaps these girls want to share a room with Jenny, rather than it being forced on them.

Yanbu.

To the posters who don't see a problem with this teenage boy sharing with teenage girls: do you agree that teenage sleeping arrangements on a school trip should be sex segregated?

Then went can't the boys and girls share a room? Why are mixed sex sleeping arrangements ok in some situations and not in others.

my 15 year old might be comfortable with her gay friend ive just asked her she is not so comfortable she wishes to share a room with him make up yes bedroom no

Jenny would be very vulnerable in a male dorm.

But the girls wouldn't be vulnerable sharing a room with a male classmate?

Confused about Jenny beinh very vulnerable in a male dorm. Surely if she would be vulnerable with males just by virtue of them being males then the females are also going to be vulnerable with jenny (by virtue of her being biologically male)

I'm not having a go and I would call her a man but biologically I'm pretty sure at 14 she'd be the same as all the other boys, I don't think they have surgery or hormones at such a young age.

If jenny shouldn't be with the boys because she might get bullied for her transfer status or might be uncomfortable then that can be sorted by single rooms. I don't see any reason why the school should do away with segregation based on sex just as it's a trip.

Catching I insinuated nothing.

"Jenny" is male and plenty of women have fallen foul of feeling at ease with their male friends, sadly.

"Jenny" being in a room full of girls is as problematic as any other boy would be.

OP, you needn't worry about raising the issue because the school will need to have planned this very very carefully.

If we're considering the general case, then sexual orientation is irrelevant. Sleeping arrangements and bathroom facilities are segregated on the grounds of biological sex, not gender. If 'Jenny' has not undergone medically recognised reassignment, then 'Jenny' is still biologically male.

Obviously the planned legal changes to make self-declaration the only consideration are likely to make this an increasingly thorny issue.

In this case, the sensitive solution would be for 'Jenny' to be accommodated in a single room- school residential accommodation has to have separate rooms for teachers, and it's usually en-suite which would avoid the bathroom issue as well.

I am confused at those who think boys of 14 will automatically attack and rape Jenny, but that Jenny would never be threat to any girls. Totally contradictory.

Poor Jenny :( it must be really awful to feel so under suspicion and like she can't belong properly.

TypicallyEnglishMustard absolutely not the case at all.
When we knew a pupil would be restarting as the gender they identified with, I spoke to my DS at length. He has ASD and I explained as best I could.
To understand that Jack must have been really unhappy as he was, and now feels much happier as Jenny. To treat his class mate just as he used to, and if he made a mistake and used the wrong name or pronoun, to correct himself, and accept her as she is now, as she must have had to be really brave to say out loud that she wasn't happy being Jack.
I believe I have been both supportive and understanding, and tried my best to explain to DS. That does not mean I think rules should be waived or bent though, to accommodate mixed sex housing in a foreign country for school children.