To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

greyselegy
If you could give us an example of what living 'as a woman' might be, it would help us know what you mean by it.

As already indicated, I think it's highly individual. I wouldn't presume to speak on behalf of others, or assume that my experiences are like anybody elses.

CoteDAzur
Oh, I don't know - How about treating it like any other harmful practice to young people that would be actively discouraged, if not banned?

Not their jurisdiction, surely? The advice they do give is relevant to the activities they offer and seems sensible in terms of addressing potential issues, duty of care responsibilities etc.

Well, what makes the difference is that she gets seen as a woman and treated the way women get treated

So, paid less and expected to take more responsibility for the household chores, then?

Or, expecting sexual interest from heterosexual men?

No? So what does 'treated the way women get treated' mean, really, in practice? What does it mean to 'react to [someone] as a woman', rather than 'as a human being'?

Klein erm the majority of people would treat a TW as a TW, not as a woman.

Well yes, if you are perceived as a woman and treated accordingly then that is part of being a woman. But our biology is a big part too - no TW will ever experience being unable to speak in a meeting because you teeth are tightly gritted due to period pains and you're trying not to double over, no TW will ever experience unwanted pregnancy or female infertility, if they are attacked they are more likely to be the same build and strength as their attacker, they have been socialised as male so more likely to go into higher earning STEM careers, they will never take maternity leave and see their careers set back as a result.....there is so much more to being a woman than what we wear.

The idea that if you don't accept a trans girl in your DDs bedroom on school residential will be accused of bigotry is very real. I think these policies rely upon people wishing to seem liberal and accepting will overrule common sense.

fascicle:
" If you could give us an example of what living 'as a woman' might be, it would help us know what you mean by it.

As already indicated, I think it's highly individual. I wouldn't presume to speak on behalf of others, or assume that my experiences are like anybody elses. "

I'm not at all asking you to speak on behalf of others. I'm interested in what you mean. Can you at all see that your refusal to even try to explain what you mean confirms my suspicion that you only think what you say means anything?

I know it sounds harsh to say that someone is talking nonsense. I hope you don't read it as a personal attack. It's just that talking nonsense (in quite a specific way) does seem to underlie the transactivist case.

I've read lots of so-called terfs explaining what they mean by 'woman'. Those who call them terfs, not so much. (Not at all, in fact.)

Is anyone who thinks a male-bodied transgender person is a woman prepared to try to explain what they mean by 'woman'?

(Again, I perhaps need to add: "'woman' means what someone who identifies themselves as a woman is" won't do. Is that obvious by now?)

are you saying that the only people who should take any interest in this are the parents of a transgender child, and the parents of the children who are being put in a bedroom with him or her? No-one else gets to have an opinion?

Well yes, anyone can have an opinion on it; judging by the number of posts on this thread very many people do have an opinion on it. Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

The only opinions that matter however are those of Jenny, the girls Jenny is sharing with and their respective parents. If they're all happy then I honestly can't see why anyone else would feel the need to get involved.

"happy mommy, happy baby" eh, gwenci?

are you saying that the only people who should take any interest in this are the parents of a transgender child, and the parents of the children who are being put in a bedroom with him or her? No-one else gets to have an opinion?

I’m saying no-one else has any reason to bother the school with their opinions.

And if they do they are stupid and nosy?

Well wouldn’t you feel stupid if you went into the school and they told you it was just a silly rumour? Or if it was for real then the school would be supposed to discuss Jenny’s situation and arrangements with the very minimum number of other parents. That might well include parents of other girls on the residential but it's not obvious how the school could justify discussing it with the OP since it doesn't affect her DS.

Sorry Multivac, I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Of course the school can discuss their safeguarding policy with parents. Any parents.

And what do you imagine is a 'silly rumour' - that Jenny has transitioned? Or that they will be sharing a room with their female friends? Which bit of that is silly?

It's a reference gwenci to the kind of attitude that says 'if something doesn't directly affect me, right now, then I shouldn't make a fuss about it; if everyone involved seems to be ok, then I shouldn't consider the wider and/or long term implications. I shouldn't, in short, think too much, if there's no obvious fire to put out'.

So what you're saying is that although this particular scenario doesn't affect you, or anyone you know, and although the people directly involved are fine with the whole situation, you're a woman so you have a right to object?

Yes Gwenci, exactly that.

Just like I would, have and will object to anything in life that I believe has the possibility to cause long term ramifications.

I would always object, because sometimes the very people who aren't objecting are not doing so because they feel afraid to.

Of course the school can discuss their safeguarding policy with parents. Any parents.

General policy, yes, but not individual details unless your own child is involved.

So what you're saying is that although this particular scenario doesn't affect you, or anyone you know, and although the people directly involved are fine with the whole situation, you're a woman so you have a right to object?

Yes. Exactly. Just like I object to, say, the death penalty on principle. Even though it doesn't directly affect me or anyone I know.

And that is totally fair enough and completely within your rights to do so.

I personally just feel very sorry for Jenny and the long term ramifications situations like this will have on her life. I appreciate that not everyone would see it that way.

What long-term ramifications would they be?

I don't think anyone on this thread doesn't have sympathy with Jenny, Gwenci.

Just because I care about long term ramifications and because I care about girls in the future, this does not mean that I am 'anti Jenny', far from it.
People like Jenny should be afforded privacy, dignity and respect - as should all people.

I can care about how children are being peddled the lie that it is possible to change their sex; I can care about how children are being forced into ever narrowing gender 'rules' from before they are even born; I can care about self identification being brought in as law.
I can also care about Jenny at exactly the same time.

1000 posts?!