To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

If they wouldn't let boys and girls share on the basis of biological sex then Jenny shouldn't be sharing with girls. Jenny may have to have her own room. I appreciate this might be hard on Jenny, but the school have a duty of care to all the pupils and putting a 14 year old male in with 14 year old females seems to me to be a bad idea for lots of reasons.

This is a common trope, that trans people are sexual predators.

No. That is not the trope, actually. Kids on school trips are separated by sex. Are we ok with that? That's what we need to ask ourselves.

MattDillonspants I don't think it is her place because it isn't something affecting the whole school. Just something affecting Jenny and the girls she's sharing with. The OP of course can do what she wants but it's unlikely the SLT will discuss private infirmation with her.

violet I don't think Jenny should be in the boys dorm either as that would be uncomfortable for both her and the other boys. I think their should be private accommodation for Jenny.

7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.

82% of all juvenile victims are female.

The year in a male’s life when he is most likely to be the victim of a sexual assault is age 4. A female’s year of greatest risk is age 14.

Just some stats from RAINN. USA but I don't think it's much different in the UK. Girls are raped by friends, girls are raped by boys, girls are raped on trips away.

I'm not saying Jenny is a rapist but there is a reason we segregate by sex not feelings. My judgement may be clouded by having a friend who was raped on a trip away. It was her first time. It was a boy she knew.

TheSpottedZebra also, my DS has ASD, has never had a sleepover at home, and hasn't had one at anyone else's house either. You are confusing me with another poster.

My 14 yo dd had sleep overs with boys but only those she had known for years and the sleepovers were generally many more girls than boys. It really didn't bother me at all. However I would not be happy for her to share with a boy or a transgender boy to girl who she didn't know very well.

So I think the whole sharing situation is more to do with being comfortable with them rather than which sex they are.

I say agian, I am bisexual. By the argument of keeping all teenagers who could potentially be attracted to each other separate, I guess I wouldn't have been able to sleep over at any friends houses, OP, just in case I somehow lost my mind and ended up raping my friends? You are implying some really nasty things, here. Teenagers have self control just like anyone else.

The thing is, as a teen, I wouldn't have thought about all the issue that can come with sleeping in the same dorm than a MTF.

To start with, what is going to happen when they get unbdressed before going to bed? Don't you think that the fact Jenny is MTF and not a girl will be very apparent then when it migt not be as obvious in other situation? Or will you the expect every girl to get changed in a cubicle instead?
Is Jenny not going to feel very uncomfortable in that setting? Will the other girls not feel very uncomfortable when the fact Jenny actually still has a penis, a working one, with morning wood etc...

Imo, the issue isn't as such the risk of rape. It's the fact that Jenny will have bodily reactions that are specifically make (erection etc...) whereas the girls will have boddly stuff happening that are femal (eg periods) and forcing them to share can make everyone very uncomfortable.

Asking Jenny to share with the boys would be just as ackward of course.

If she is sharing with her closest female friends, then the situation is sorted isn't it? And nothing to do with you really OP. I don't get the hysteria about sleeping arrangements as long as the people sharing are comfortable.

Nobody is saying that all trans people are sexual predators, but enough men are that women are segregated from them on the basis of sex, not gender identity, when they are vulnerable or need privacy. There's no way to evaluate each man in each situation and decide whether or not he's a threat.

Decent men understand this and have no problem with it. they may also want their privacy too.

It could have something to do with the OP if (as seems to be the general feel on here) the parents of the girls have an issue with this such that Jenny ends up being put in a boys dorm as she has a penis.

I would hope that the school would handle it better than that though.

This is a common trope, that trans people are sexual predators

But that's not the case.

I wouldn't want my dc, aged 14, sleeping in mixed dorms. AT ALL. And that's not because I think everyone of the opposite sex to my dc is a sexual predator

It's because mixing sexes aged 14 would be fucking stupid.

Jenny (presumably) has a fully functioning penis. She is anatomically male. She should not be sleeping with the girls. Nor should any other biological male, regardless of how they feel or look or dress or identify.

She's still physically a boy. And no, I don't think she should get the...rights? treatment?...of other girls, yet. When you've completed the physical as well as mental transformation then sure, be treated as female. But nope, you can't be treated the same as a biological girl/woman when you're not.

Is it misandrist to separate boys and girls because we are assuming all boys are sexual predators?

Because if Jenny dresses, acts, appears female then the other males may see her as female. Additionally identifying as female and being placed with males would be mortifying for her so she would feel very vulnerable indeed.

I'm a gay female and would have been devastated to be placed with males in case I'm classed as a risk to the other girls.

I went to mixed sleepovers many times in my teens. Jenny will be sharing with her friends, I would not be remotely concerned if my DD were one of them.

Teenagers have self control just like anyone else.

Of course they do; but how would you feel hearing about a school trip where 14-year-old girls and boys were in shared dorms for a week? If you are ok with that (and I think, on balance, I might well be) then fine, the situation the OP describes isn't an issue. But if you aren't - well, then you want lines to be drawn.

sapac.umich.edu/article/52

look im all for belonging BUT you're neither one thing or another unless you have had surgery your still wanting to be a girl but you have a functioning penis so until your snipped or finished how you want to be made your decision 100% (i don't think at 14 they will have 100% decided what they want to be i think some thinking time is in order here (personal opinion)

the best thing to do is stay separate unless you put those safeguards in place this system is open to abuse yes jenny might be genuine but the next one might not be and i feel that will depend on how jenny is treated now because people are going to know what if a lower year girl decides she is f2m before a school trip and she gets to share with her "best mate" except he is actually her boyfriend where is the line drawn? make it clear separation will happen and it protects the genuine and closes the opportunity for abuse

there will always be chancers we have a unique opportunity to get something right do we drift into things being wishy washy letting people do as they feel at the time? or do we put guards in place to counter the inevitable abuse its better to safeguard now than regret later in my opinion

I feel like half the people here do not understand what transgender means...

Poor Jenny... She was born into a body that doesn't match who she is, so think about how she would feel having to sleep with a bunch of boys, when she is a girl... Just in a male body.

It winds me up... Yes, teens have a whole bunch of hormones, but it doesn't mean they want to rape people or are attracted to every single person out there, bloody hell. Why is everyone moaning at Jenny? If the other person wanted to engage in sex, it's their problem too...

The feeling of never belonging must be awful
Yep but there are plenty of other situations where you end up like that. I do for very different reasons.
It can be crap but you surround yourself with people that 'get you' and get on with your life.
You can't expect people to bend over backward to fit around you all the time.

mediamatters.org/research/2015/06/03/17-school-districts-debunk-right-wing-lies-abou/203867

I assume that "Jenny" is giving being trans and so "living as a woman/girl" a better effort than the teenage MTT pupil I know of. Who wears a skirt to school (unlike every other girl who attends) and also sports some rather fetching facial hair.

I'm bisexual and do not identify in any way with trans people and their issues. They are separate from sexuality, not least because sex can be determined by sight and sexuality cannot.

Turtles don't you thik that Jenny could well feel just as uncomfortable to dhsre a dorm with 3 other girls when she wakes up with an erection in the am? Or when they are getting changed (her getting changed or them getting changed?)
Eevn saying that if they share the room with Jenny, they can't be changed in that room, they have to use the loo/showers/whatever, it will create a sutuation where there ios some discrimnation going on.

The only solution that feels right to me is for Jenny to have a room for herself, jst like she uses the disabled loo at school etc etc

catching you wouldn't need to be placed with men, because you're a woman. Sexuality isn't the issue - women are at risk from men, not lesbians.

turtles how can you be a girl in a male body? Do you believe there are differences in men's and women's brains (hint - there's currently zero evidence for this)? Jenny has the right body and only body they can have. Jenny may be gender non conforming, and good for them, but to say there's something wrong with a healthy body strikes me as odd. There is only one way to be a girl or woman and that's our biology - our bleeding and breeding, nothing more.

Just to acknowledge the PPs who say that because my child is a boy it's "none of my business", or "What's it got to do with you?"

I'm a white, straight, female. Does that mean supporting the rights of the LGBT community are 'none of my business'? That the rights of persons of colour have got "nothing to do with me"?

Or, are we allowed an opinion as non-conforming allies of the people different to us, unless we question or disagree?