To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

FOR FUCKS SAKE no one is calling the child a RAPIST we are simply suggesting for everyone's sake that to protect JENNY she should be in a separate room

stop trying to shut down healthy debate by screaming the rapist card its fucking insulting to put across a reasonable argument for the safety of all concerned and to have it ignored and twisted

I'm not in favour of mixed sex sleepovers at 13/14 - fine if they're older and are more sure of their sexuality

At 13/14 there's far too much playing around , snogging and trying out things.

Throw a penis attached to a friend and add in a few teenage hormones (girls and boys) and you literally have a recipe for disaster.

Older teenagers who know who they are sexually, fine. Children this age shouldn't be having mixed sex sleepovers.

Well if we believe all 14 year old boys are potential rapists maybe all the boys should have they own room in they case they rape each other.

Jenny is female, Jenny identifies as female, having a penis does not make her male, if a male somehow lost his penis it would not make him female. Gender is not just your genitals.

It may seem that the girls are happy sharing a room with Jenny, and they may well be. However considering that some posters have anyway said the op is transphobic for even thinking it may be a problem, what chance a teenage girl? Does she express her discomfort and face a backlash from her classmates? Or live with a situation she may be intensely uncomfortable with, even if it is only for a few nights.

I think it is disingenuous to assume it would be easy to raise objections.

That old gem 'not your circus, not your monkeys' springs to mind. As you say, you know nothing of the details. Presumably the school does. Leave it to them.

Lots of people feel they can never belong properly. For some it is life.

Yeah fuzzpig because that state of mind is exclusive to the trans community?

and again the ignorance and talk about rape

Sex is though, Catching.

"Jenny" is male.

Perhaps Jenny's friends are actually NOT comfortable with sharing a room with Jenny, despite their friendship, but are too frightened to say so because they'd then be labelled TERFy bigots?

Are you talking about those saying the boys could rape Jenny?

Sorry, cross posted with Soapbox.

It is up to her friends if they are willing to share with her surely? I'm honestly a bit of a TERF when it comes to issues like trans women competing as women in the Olympics, but this surely boils down to simply treating a young person with the same consideration you would treat any other young person. So if her friends are fine with room sharing where's the problem?

My DD2(16) went on a school trip a couple of months ago and shared a room with a group of friends. She had a girlfriend (not on the trip) at the time. None of her friends freaked out about sharing a room or changing with a lesbian, none of them expressed any worries that she would try and jump them. In short, they showed a level of common sense that seems to have eluded some posters on here.

The ignorance and talk about rape is in response to those stating that the girls would be at risk of being attacked if Jenny were to share a room with them. That risk applies both ways surely if we are to become histerical throw that into it?

HELLO HELLO CAN ANYONE HEAR ME? THIS IS NOT ABOUT RAPE! HELLO?

there was never the suggestion of rape willing sex yes rape no confused teens loads of hormones and the need to protect children from themselves by providing a separate room

So if a group of girls wanted to share with a boy they were friends with, would that be okay?

Of course, the reality for any 14 year olds on a school trip (or anywhere else for that matter) who wish to get up to any lights off shennanigans would find a way irrespective of what rooms they are given The transgender question in this 'scenario' is a bit of a non-issue IMHO.

Funnily enough, on my DS's 6th form trip to Russia a few years back, the supervising teaching staff decided to put boys in with girls on the sleeper train from St. Petersburg to Moscow, as there were some predatory local men prowling the carriages trying to get into the girls rooms. They took the decision (quite rightly) that the kids would look after each other and not abuse the situation.

If the school already offers separate facilities for Jenny rather than have her share the girls, then it seems they are already aware of the issue of protecting not just Jenny, but protecting the other children at the school from any potential threat (however unlikely) from Jenny. It is unlikely if they had mixed dorms that any of the students would have sex, but they might, so children are not put in mixed dorms.

By not putting Jenny in with the boys they are recognising that the boys might pose a threat to Jenny, but by doing that are not passing judgement on those particular boys, if the school is making safe guarding decisions based on biological sex and not on the individual child's personality, then Jenny should be judged the same way as all the other children on the trip.

OP - I would quietly raise it with the school, just enquire, stating that obviously the school has made separate provision for Jenny to date, would they be making separate provision on the school trip. (baring in mind it's not just the legal situation in the UK that matters, but that of the country they are going to, if Jenny is viewed as male there, particulary if she is travelling on a passport as Jack, then it could cause the school problems if they want to put a girl and boy in a shared room)

Tiny of course it's not "up to her friends" are you serious? They're all children and need caring for.

Both Jenny and her friends are potentially vulnerable. These are 14 year olds. Sexuality and gender is very complex and anything could happen.

This whole conversation is feeding into the rape culture idea that somehow teenage boys in particular just can't control themselves and are rapists if they get the chance. Rapists are rare, cruel and calculating people who manipulate their victims and know exactly what they are doing - they don't get "overcome by hormones" or trip and fall into someone's vagina. The nasty implications I have counted so far: teenage boys are rapists, trans girls aren't real girls, therefore trans girls are boys, therefore trans girls are rapists. Yay!

no one actually said the girls were at risk of being attacked they simply questioned the wisdom of a functioning penis in the girls dorm and people scream rape

i think my painkillers are wearing off im swearing an awful lot tonight

Abbis - read the thread. Several posters stated Jenny would be a risk to the girls, some even posted rape statistics saying that the girls are likely to become victims at 14.

Catching your missexing is incredibly offensive.

How do you define 'male' and 'female'?

But why is this particular element of Jenny's, presumably, very challenging transition any business of yours now?

It's great that you've explained all this stuff to your son, but this is really, REALLY not your subject to broach with the school. That would not be being supportive of Jenny or her parents. That would be nosey meddling, by my book. The school will handle this with sensitivity after lots of thought and discussion about it. They aren't likely to forget how significant a decision it is if you don't broach it with them.

And some said if Jenny was put with th boys, the boys could rape Jenny.