To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

Look, my DD has to fit around me to a certain extent because I'm a LP and I work FT from home. Two hours every day she spends trailing round after me while I work.

I don't think that's a desirable thing though! I'd far rather have the time free to spend with her, or have family around who can look after her!

If I go to the pub/out for dinner she comes because she's three and I can't leave her on her own (no babysitter). It's not what either of us want though.

Everyone makes the best of their own circumstances. Judging anyone for it is really silly.

I do think like you have a rather unrealistic and idealized vision of how easy it could be if only people would put their foot down and be more disciplined, babies and children are not dolls with one/off switches, however I do agree with you that things don't have to be quite so obsessively child focused as some people seem to make them and there are an awful lot of mummy martyrs out there. A certain amount of benign neglect is a good thing for the child's development and no one likes a brat who can't give their parents a minutes peace when in adult company.

I don't have the news on because it's full of violent imagery OP.

There's usually a sound reason behind what seems like silly parental cow-towing.

Artandco mine were not "law abiding" as you put it - they were very physical and active, walking before 1 etc and saying no only worked so far. They're better now but were in to everything as babies/toddlers.

Plus dh and I don't have the luxury of being able to work at home so when we are at home we want to see the DCs and vice versa. In fact they play happily when we are around more.
So I suspect your working arrangements and being with them more makes a huge difference.

This thread reminds me of people about to adopt a cat and say things like 'Oh no it won't be allowed in bedrooms or on the settee'.

I fear you are both going to get a rude awakening

Or you will end up getting divorced. Because one of you will not be willing to change their lifestyle . And the other one will end up having to do all the work and become increasingly resentful .

Thing is you can plan... Except you don't know which baby you'll get.
Friends planned on not rigid routine; baby had a medical condition that required a strict routine due to medications.
D1 would sleep anywhere, at any time; dd2 not only didn't sleep in a buggy, but it would mess up her (not very good) sleep for days afterwards.
Ds had major ear infections as a baby so if he started crying at night I did rush ti him as he could be in a lot of pain very quickly.
Dsis planned on being a totally free and easy, chuck out of doors parent; when her first baby died unexpectedly it's made her understandably protective.

Your plans are fine, what most of us plan type of thing. But the reality is different.
Have you said yet you're never going to resort to bribery?
Little secret (bribery is brilliant and works well and I'd guess pretty much every parent says they won't use it until they discover actually it's good)

We have no one to take DS to the park, let alone a sleepover. I'm envious of those wuth aunts/uncles/grandparents to look after their dc. Even if we lived in the same country as my mum she wouldn't have DS, even though she is a fit and healthy 63, DS is a Dyracell bunny. That makes a hell of a big difference. DH and I haven't been outto dinner, the cinema or anything in 4.5 years. It's just how the cookie crumbles.

However, we aren't pushovers and have firm boundaries with DS. He has an evening routine that is flexible within 30 minutes (ie bed at 8.30 or 9 is ok), he has fairly limited tv, he plays on his own really well. We live round the corner fromtwo parks, so when he is older we'll let him play out with neighbourhood children, we see lots on their bikes etc.

However, other people may see us stuvk to our son with no flexibility. I work 4-10 everday, DH works from home so he does pickups and had DS every night. I see him Saturday afternoon (I also work Sat morn) and Sunday. I'm not going to go out for a girly lunch on Sunday and leave DS with his dad, plus I want to spend time with my son. I'm quite obviously not the primary carer and it 'niggles', for want of a better word, when DS goes to daddy for everything and I'm yesterday's cheese

Having said that, we do know people whose DC rule the roost. Good luck to them, that's not for us.

Ahh, I see. The famous non parent posting with parenting plans.

All the best there.

DD had to fit into our lives and the dd2 fitted in around mine and dd1

I went out and about, worked and my dds both played out in the street from age five with the eldest and aged about seven eight with dd2.

Both went to school on their own by year 3 & 4 respectively.

They both got the bus into town at 11 and went shopping etc and DD 2 got local bus to school.

Both came home alone and house was empty from secondary school age at 11 and both had to be home alone in hols, as I worked.

Dd2 cycled without a chaperone from age 13.

But at about the same time I spent more and more time with her driving 108 miles to her sport each week and then 108 miles back. Dd2 had always competed since the age of about 19 and I had always taxied her as the distance to training was twenty miles each way. So then I put her needs before other family members.

Now though she is fairly independent 17 year old working and does college course.

The eldest is living away from home and is also very independent.
I feel if I had engineered the life to run solely around the dc then they would have ultimately suffered.

Children need to be aloud to play out, fail, fall down, hurt themselves and just plain hang out and socialise to find out how the next generation is going to be.

Am I a mummy martyr because I " won't leave my kids to get their my cut / go shopping / enjoy a coffee in peace"?

Can you tell me where I should be leaving my kids in order to get this done? Because I'm fairly sure if I left my 3 year old home alone I could expect a visit from SS

I am with you on some points. However until you get to that situation you don't know what you will do.

I thought we would leave our DC was th babysitters to maintain our social life until it transpired that the gps weren't quite as forthcoming with this as we expected. It wasn't until they got to school age that we felt comfortable using a 'paid' babysitter. This is also makes a quick trip to the cinema very expensive. We do not have anyone to leave them overnight with except friends who all have children too and everyone has such busy lives you feel bad asking.

We have adapted our holidays/days out to things that are family friendly, if everyone is enjoying themselves then it's a much happier time. We do still manage to do a few bits that are not of interest to them. As they have got older they understand now about give and take...

However none of these things bother me like I thought they would pre dc. They are only young for such a short time. I do have plans in the back of my mind for a few things I will do when they have flown the nest!

Children are people, not accessories that you get to fit in around your life.

Maybe get some guinea pigs or something.

Definitely don't have children until you have matured past the know-it-all stage of adolescence.

Hahaha I mean that kindly as I'd have agreed with you before the DC turned up!

The thing is, they arrive and are SO full-on that the world does end up circling around them for several years at least. They then get old enough that this can be changed to a more equitable arrangement (I.e. they are capable of understanding and negotiating a bit), but most families (including ours) are in such a habit of deferring to children's wishes at that point that it feels like a needless uphill struggle for minimal gain. DH and I are fighting for our right to watch Andrew Marr on Sunday mornings though

Stay patient with the demands on your friends' time, it should improve!

Broadly speaking I think YABU but that if you don't have children, it is hard to picture exactly the nature of how all consuming they are! I do agree that children benefit from learning how to play on their own, and I personally try not to go down the route of having kids' TV on the whole time except Peppa when I'm cooking else no-one would ever manage to get a meal, but in reality, babies and toddlers are a law unto themselves and need looking after, engaging with and entertaining, even if they do manage to entertain themselves for a bit. For example, I started writing this post about half an hour ago, toddler was doing stickers while DH cooked, I was having a lovely bath by myself. But she got tired of stickers and DH was mid pancaking so she jumped in the bath with me. Yes, I would have preferred a bath on my own for once, but if we had have insisted she carry on playing by herself she would have got more and more upset. Not because we indulge her, but because she's 2! She'd done her thing, then she needed us. It's definitely important for parents to do things for them, meet friends, have time going out for coffee or away by themselves, but in reality, it's not the same when there is a child, nothing is. Fwiw I thought exactly the same as you before I had kids so I'm not trying to sound patronising or like a martyr, but just trying to give examples of just how things change

You might find the teenage years interesting.

Or you will end up getting divorced. Because one of you will not be willing to change their lifestyle . And the other one will end up having to do all the work and become increasingly resentful

Yes. This happens a LOT

No flaming from me. I am a mother of 4 and I think you have a point. You do have to compromise when you have dc and that's fair enough - their needs have to be the priority, but that is needs and not whims. It is important for couples to have time that is just theirs. I ensure that my dc get my time and attention, plus a fair share of family things, such as tv. But I do not allow them to dominate the entire household - they have bed time and know that in the evening it is grown up time. I have taught them to respect that adults need time together.

I have friends whose whole lives are built around the kid's activities - every day after work and at weekends. It must be exhausting and I do wonder what these couples are going to talk about when their kids leave home!

I think that good parenting involves teaching your kids that they are important but that the whole world does not revolve around entertaining them - that other people need things too and are also important.

Also selfishly, if I go out for lunch with friends, I want to talk to them, not their dc. I am not endlesdly fascinated by other people's children, however lovely they are. I think it is not good manners to make the choldren the centre of every activity or conversation. I tried very hard not to do this when I had dc - I was aware that they are the centre of my life but not that if my friends. A lot of people seem to have lost any sense of social awareness.

Depends on the child doesn't it. Severely autistic ds1 is never going to fit around us. That's not how it works. Strong willed ds3 makes his presence felt - particularly when unhappy. I supose we'd have had a chance of doing completely our own thing with so-laid-back-he's-horizontal-ds2 (less so now he's an opinionated teenager).

The thing is when you have a child their needs come first. If I'd felt that it was essential we led the way & children fitted around us then I would have either cracked up myself when ds1 became autistic or seriously failed to meet his needs.

It's very easy to know what you're going to do before a child appears.

OP, i thought exactly like you.
"Well Mrs Seeyou, there will be none of this bending over backwards with our off spring." i said, peering over my pince-nez, "no no no, a child should be seen and not heard. we shall continue in our merry life and the child will become an accessory until it is old enough to contribute"
"yes darling husband of mine" she dutifully replied,
"you see dearest" i continued as i sipped my brandy, "A child is the keeper of a promise for a better tomorrow and as such should hold no weight on the business of today"
"Yes darling husband"

Then i woke up and actually realised that it's not because you have to shape your world around them, it's because you want to.
You will too op, maybe not at first, but by 2 and half, maybe younger, you'll realise that your life is all about them and that your life is better than you ever thought it could be.

Oh bless you :)

I thought like this too.

It's turned out just like we planned. Not

Keep this post though. It will give you a great laugh whe you look back

I think a lot of us have grand ideas about not letting children change or rule our lives...... Until we actually have them that is.
I do think it's important to try maintain some sort of a social life though, for your sanity, to help through the difficult times. That said, it all depends on the needs of your children.
Come back and let's us all know when you have a clingy baby that won't go to anyone but you DC.

I guess in a way we don't fit into the recent parenting school of 'children have to be your best friend'. We want to parent them, not become chums

I don't know anyone who parents their child like this.

What you have described is fairly extreme. What you are planning on doing is the complete opposite.

The reality will be somewhere in the middle. My da for example was my second so had to slot into some degree. But even as a young baby he wouldn't sleep somewhere new or somewhere there was a lot going off.

At 4 months old he once stayed up from 4pm til 11pm because we were out with him. You can't guarantee your baby will fall asleep in its pram while you have dinner at your friends.

My dd would have. Ds didn't.

You can't get away that life changes as a baby. Personally I have found life revolves around them more as they get older. School run, school events, parents assembly, school plays, school rehearsal, after school clubs, after school clubs parties, after school club events, class mates birthday parties, school discos, parent consultations, world book day, reading records, homework books, projects etc

I have a dd in secondary and ds is in primary. People think life is easier when they go to school. I disagree. Childcare costs go down, but it's not easy.

Your parenting ideals may well work.....if you give birth to a walking, talking, semi-independent 9 year old.
Up to at least a year old, life does revolve around your baby/toddler's eating times and nap times. You will learn that if a baby/toddler doesn't have a nap or that nap is interrupted, they will soon turn from a cute bundle of squishy smiles, into a gremlin that's got wet or been fed after midnight and you can't tell a baby/toddler, "oh you'll have to wait to be fed because mummy is busy" because they simply do not understand. They understand they are hungry and they want food/milk. They do not wait for a convenient little slot in your schedule. We've had many a trip to Asda interrupted by a newborn DD needing to be fed, so a quick breastfeeding pit stop in the cafe is what has to happen. She's 10mo now so it's not so bad with feeding, ie. I can give her a bottle of milk to feed herself while she sits in the trolley, or hand her snacks as we go round, but we are still slaves to her nap times!

Dd (now 11) was a dream baby, toddler and child. Could do most things with her in tow. Bedtime could be delayed an hour or so etc with no big disasters.

Ds (2) not so much. I once missed the cbeebies bedtime song because I was on the phone. Took me an hour to get him down. Meals out tend to be hurried as we get about 40 minutes where he will sit in the highchair.

He does sleep pretty well these days. Up at 7pm, quick kiss and I dump him in bed and run down for the large fucking gin I desperately need!

During the day we have kids tv in as background noise to the havoc he creates. It's constant noise and activity. When he goes quiet he is either up to something or plotting something.

But bedtime is at 7pm. No matter what.

For balance we had some friends a who just carried on with their lives regardless of dcs. The dcs were pretty miserable. No routine or bedtimes and the parents were too busy carrying on as before to notice or particularly care that their dcs were miserable, tired most of the time and that some of the things they did were pretty fucking selfish and borderline negligent.

We went through a stage of meeting them on a Saturday afternoon to do something with the dcs. This was before ds arrived. Dd was around 7/8. It would start of meeting somewhere like bowling. At 12am. We would do that for an hour then discuss somewhere to go for lunch and a few drinks.

They would be knocking back the drinks, not bother with lunch, random childless people would arrive and it would end up with being a piss up. Their dcs were 8/9 and about 18 months old. After a couple of hours they would convince one of their older dcs friends to babysit, pack them off home and try and get us to do the same with dd. Ie send her with their dcs so we could stay and have a 'proper' drink.

Every fucking time.

We booked a holiday. They booked to come with us. Thought it would be nice fir the kids they said. We found their then 2 year old ds by the departure gate while they were still in the bar getting pissed a 10 minute walk away. They laughed and said he couldn't escape from an airport.

We spent our holiday with their older dc while they got pissed every day from 11am to 3am. They never took them on the beach. Never really sat around the pool for the littlw one.

So yes. It is possible to carry on as normal. But it doesn't mean you should.