To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

Oh but you absolutely are smug and judgemental - just you telling me you're not means not a jot.

I'm beginning to think you are a Daily Mail journo actually, you can't be for real saying your dc will never have screen time in the bedroom or phones at 11. You just have no idea. We are strict about phones and were one of the few families we know that didn't allow any games consoles until they were about 11/12 but children are actually human beings with their own actions and thoughts and a) they don't always do what they are told and b) you actually do listen to them and compromise and bend your own thoughts and beliefs in tandem with them.

DH used to say this... He's changed his tune big time. It depends on the child and age. DD hates sleep so when she was little we took her out loads in the evening etc. She was happy to just be up with us. However now she's a toddler she needs to be in her cot or we risk no sleep at all. That said she plays lovely on her own. I'm also more than happy to leave her overnight but as she doesn't sleep no one ever really wants to have her for us. So sometimes you don't get a choice.

I do think for the first few years you do what you can to survive after that you can get more of your life back.

A good friend of mine had strong view points on how her kids would fit into her life. Unfortunately it didn't work out like that! She was crying with how tired she was but she wouldn't change her "bedtime" of 11pm because that was always when she went.

She did get quite depressed with it all - not quite PND, but more tiredness and the realisation that life does have to change

would fall asleep in my pram or upstairs in someone's bed while the party continued

This isn't a guaranteed design feature. Unfortunately many models lack this function.

There is a middle ground but it is not always easy to stick to. I don't believe in children ruling their parents. Giving in to tantrums and whining spoils a child but there are many times when your plan will just not work.

Buying some very good slings were key to life continuing as close to previous as possible here. But somehow I don't think that is what you are after...

Actually op I agree - to a point. But when you become a family it's all about balance so everyone gets what they need.

Ds has always been very 'portable' - able to sleep anywhere. As a consequence we haven't stopped going out to dinner or to parties - he comes with us and sleeps upstairs. It was easier to go out for meals before he was a toddler thougb and even at 5 all the condiments have a habit of ending up at the opposite end of the table. He's a fiddler and so the 'relaxed meals' aspect of our lives has completely disappeared. We tend to frequent the family pub/ restaurants that we used to avoid, because there's more to keep him entertained and it means we still get a chance for a proper conversation.

The tv is usually showing kids programmes. It allows us to get things done around the house. I don't believe the news is appropriate viewing for a 5yo - I'd like to preserve his innocence a little while longer. If it disturbs me (e.g. the Paris attacks) then it will disturb him. However, if he asks me things I answer honestly but age appropriately.

When we have family holidays we are clear with ds that it is just that - a family holiday. Therefore we'll do things for and with him, but there are occasions when he'll be bored because we want to do something for us, like sight seeing.

Interaction with them is educational. They need to learn to play on their own as well as play with others however. Dh and I have never spent all day every day playing with ds, but it's incredibly important to do it at least once a day. However there are times when we either don't want to play or haven't got time and as a result he has developed an amazing imagination.

There is no doubt - our lives have changed, for the better. We all fit around each other and it has helped that we've had a very adaptable, easy going child. But he is also very strong willed, can be boisterous and occasionally stubborn. Children aren't malleable small people with no wants or desires of their own. If you want them to grow into confident, happy adults you have to allow them to have a voice, opinions, the ability to question things.

I've never left ds for longer than a night. I haven't felt the need to. I miss him when he's not here. But yes it is important to remember that you're also a wife and an individual. We try to make time for each other occasionally. Invariably we do end up talking about ds. He's our proudest achievement and gives us so much to talk about!

There is no reason to stop living your life op. But you are mistaken if you think it won't change.

some families are exactly like your describe, but the majority aren't, and most strike a happy medium where the parents do spend time with the children, but have their own lives also.

however, you are a little naive if you think that your life won't change. Your life will revolve your children's meals, naps, bedtime routines etc. You may find your old life will be compromised or set aside for a while, but it will return as they get older. Also, you will discover a new life, in going to zoos, meeting up,with other families etc.

I agree, some parents do feel,the need to constantly entertain their children, take them to activities, etc, but many others learn to entertain themselves.

Family life has changed over the year, in the past it was more adult focused and now it's more children focused. having a family is what you make it. you are the parents, so you make the rules. It may seem like the children rule the roost, but only because the parents allow it.

(I don't think you need a hard hat)

The immense joy my DC bring are worth sacrifices such as news watching deprivation. I have to agree, I was so sad when I realised I couldn't watch the news anymore once I had children, it's one of those things the books never tell you, but when he dances and laughs at cbeebies so i get 10 minutes to clean the kitchen I know my sacrifice has been worth it.

Rereading my post, I don't mean to suggest you shouldn't have kids BTW. Just thought a lot of people feel under pressure to have kids when they don't really want to so was saying it's okay not to. That didn't come out quite how I meant it to.

It's possible you will be able to fit kids around your life fairly well, but you need to be prepared for the possibility that you won't.

Hmm I'm thinking more about this and it's a question of perspectives isn't it?

I think even the flamers here would agree that you shouldn't abdicate every need you have to that of your children.

If you are imagining a situation in which ill disciplined children run riot around the home, spreading plastic toy tat everywhere, no rules, nothing done then of course no one wants that! That is what happens when the parents won't put rules in place for the kids and run their lives according to what the kids want. Of course that's not on.

But, you can have the children in the centre of what you do (and imo you should) whilst still maintaining rules about being polite, confining toy mess to bedrooms, going to bed on time, being quiet in restaurants etc etc etc.

So to a certain extent yanbu. My child is at the centre of everything I do but I still have rules!

I also agree about the pandering. I see it a hell of a lot.
Watching the news though - you won't want your kid seeing things that they just aren't ready to understand or will hugely distress them. I listen to radio 4 in the car a lot and when the news comes on ds will sometimes ask about a story. Recently I turned off the child sexual exploitation gangs but I left on the story of the footballer and the 15 year old and we discussed how he was very wrong to have a relationship with someone who was a child, it led to questions about whether people have sex with younger children like his age and an age appropriate conversation about child sexual abuse. He's only just mature enough to get that though, 6 months ago he wouldn't have even asked the question. You have to judge things on your individual child. Just like adults, they have different personalities!

Haven't read all of the replies but OP- you could be me. I agree with you 100%

Too many people lose who they are entirely when they have children- it's sad actually. And boring.

Too many people lose who they are entirely when they have children- it's sad actually. And boring

If they start out as tedious knobs who bang on endlessly about things they know nothing about, then it isn't quite so sad. 😂

Hmm. I've sympathy with the kitten owner actually. My children haven't woken me up in the mornings fir years. The Rudd nine year old cat does.. He's,agitating to be fed right now but dd won't emerge for hours.

Ours never had a tv or computers in their bedrooms. Smart phones weren't really a thing until my eldest was about 14/15 though.

Sounds like a bit of a joyless existence for your yet to be conceived DC.

Bimandbam - I feel so sorry for those DC on holiday and being dragged to pubs by their parents, to be honest they sound like para-alcoholics who should be reported to SS.

OP there is a middle way. My parents were able to look after DS when we were younger so we had the (quite rare) night away. Never quite get folks who say they couldn't leave their DCs at all - I quite enjoy it. Now he's older he has sleepovers and cub camps so we get away then.

Regarding tv its a bit of a compromise. Some of the programmes DS enjoys are actually quite interesting - Myth Busters for example - I'd never have chosen to watch it off my own bat , but there's lots of good stuff in there.

For holidays we've reached an uneasy compromise, whereby each member of the family gets to choose a day of what they want to do ( dependant on what type of holiday it is - next year it's skiing every day no matter how much DS whines ).

Personally I chose not to parent my child the way my parents ( mainly my DF) did it. I don't want them to go through life thinking they're second best, that a grown adult's wishes ( generally male) always trumps theirs, every single time, that their choices in music, tv, films, just about anything is second rate and not worth listening, watching or being talked about.

I've probably swung too far the other way, but that's fine I can live with that.

I was a MUCH better parent before I had kids. Knew exactly how it should be done.

my brother said exactly this about 6 months ago. He now keeps his opinions firmly to himself

DS1 fell asleep every night without question at 8 and slept through from some ridiculous age like 6 weeks. We were smug dinner party guests, like the ones you imagine being. DS2 soon taught us! He's 2 1/2 and still wakes crying in the night. DD1 came after and sleeps like DS1, so safe to say nature over nurture!

Tell us, how will you stop your reflux baby ruining your dinner party?

On the plus side DS2 will play all day without demanding much attention. I love it when he comes over for a chat because mostly, he'd rather get on with playing. No cartoons required for him.

DS1, he loves attention and children's TV.

You get what you are given, and get on with it. Enjoy it.

I guess in a way we don't fit into the recent parenting school of 'children have to be your best friend'. We want to parent them, not become chums

How very, very sad.

What a wonderfully nurturing loving and nurturing environment your children are going to be raised in...

I started off laughing nicely at your first thread OP because of the naivety of it but the more of your posts I read the more disheartened I felt.

I feel the need to clarify the news thing - obviously it will be done age appropriately! But my point was more - as adults we are not going to sit there and watch cartoons all night.

Hey, at least I'm more realistic than DH - he confidently claims there will be no kids' TV at all - even I know that ain't likely

OP,
Do you known that old saying - before having kids I had 300 theories how to bring them up, after having kids, I have none?

Things are completely different on your mindset before having kids and after having them.
You are probably more able to think rationally now than after having kids, so if you really prefer your life to go a certain way it's good to be clear on that now while you have your brain to yourself only.
Also after kids very often you just can't keep up to how you imagine things would have been. Because it gets unbelievably harder for you in many unexpected ways.
I will not say your idea is wrong, because I don't think it is. It is one of the parenting styles and everyone choses its own according to his/her own heart and provided his/her kids are safe.

Ours fit around us and what we do. We don't have any kids tv on in the house our DD just isn't interested in tv but then we don't watch a lot of tv either. If we want to go out they go to either GPs and sleep there, if we have a party or have people round they just go to bed when they are meant to, there's no drama. If we go and eat we take them with us - why wouldn't you? They need to learn... Neither of ours are any trouble when we go out, they don't jump around like chimpanzees.

Having kids isn't that hard...

^^ What Bathtime said, esp the last teo lines of her post.

IMO there's a bit of a cultural backlash atm against what is perceived as over-indulgent parenting, and your OP has exactly that tone. I have a bit of an issue with dogmatic statements that life needs to continue revolving around the adults. The extreme manifestations of that attitude included children whose experiences of abuse were silenced or dismissed in the name of not rocking the boat. I know that's not what you're proposing or supporting (obviously!) but the whole 'I'm not changing my important adult life for a mere child' is essentially a throwback to a less enlightened age.

Adapting one's life to children doesn't have to mean 'being their friend' (another trope of this backlash discourse) or having kids' TV on constantly. We meet up with friends and our children play together. We don't allow thm to interrupt once they are byond a certain age - because part of our job is to help them to function in the world and learn social rules - but we listen to them. We prefer to go away with our children, doing interesting things with them and showing them parts of the country/world that they don't know yet. Believe it or not, children's company can be enjoyable

Our dc have boundaries - I wouldn't be encouraging the walkie-talkie thing in your OP, for example - but they are there to help instil consideration for everybody, not to assert adult authority at all costs.

I wouldn't put 'adult' TV on around young children, but that's because of suitability. I wouldn't want my dc in front of a screen all evening either, children's TV or no. I'm shuddering a bit at the idea of the Man of the House coming home, putting his programmes on and sitting there in state ignoring his children.