To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

I'm sure others have said this too but anyway!

I was very uncertain about having my own DC, wasn't sure I was cut out for motherhood, never had been much of a fan of babies/children. I had a few (not too many) preconceived ideas of how I was going to behave as a parent, not too much tv, they were going to be sleeping on their own ASAP etc. - I was going to be strict and strong and not any kind of "martyr mummy".

Then Ds1 was born and it was the biggest turn around ever for me. I just couldn't put him down - as soon as I put him into the hospital crib thing and he cried, that was it - I picked him up again, snuggled him into me and kept him there. We co-slept for the first 6m! I'm still shocked at how I went from being "authoritarian" style, to complete attachment style. (I'm back to more authoritarian now they're not babies, but I'm a complete sap when it comes to little babies!!)

So never mind you needing to change (which you might or might not) - you might find you actually want to change completely just because that's how motherhood takes you. Equally, it might not - some mothers really don't like the baby stage! Neither is wrong. Just expect the unexpected! :)

11 year olds don't need mobile data access so our 11 year old won't be having any.

How can you possibly know what an 11 year old "needs"?
How can you possibly know what an 11 year old will need in, say, 2027?

I find it interesting that your proposed birth plan is so flexible yet your ideas on how you will parent are so so rigid.

Woo woos the grass is always greener. I have a glamourous mum who is now a glamourous granny. She has a fantastic busy life and I am pleased for her, but it leaves very little time for my children. I have always been jealous of people who have devoted mums/granny's. Hence why I chose to be a sahm. My kids will probably be moaning about me in years to come.

Babies and infants are utterly dependent on their parents - so, yes, their needs come first. If you're not prepared to make that sacrifice (which TBH is frequently a total pain) then don't have kids.

But as they become less dependent, then they have to be gradually introduced to the reality that they are not the centre of the universe, and that life requires a compromise between the individual's needs and desires and those of others. This is hard for children, so has to be done gradually and compassionately - and with awareness that children are not mini-adults. They don't have the same level of cognitive abilities, understanding, resilience, coping strategies, etc.

Children are not lifestyle accessories. Parenting is a job - a damn hard one. You're responsible for turning a helpless baby into a healthy and well-balanced adult over the space of 16 years. If you're not prepared to do the work, don't take the job.

I hate the way people use the term "mummy martyr". Like it doesn't occur to them that it's possible that some of us really do enjoy it? DD can entertain herself (right now she's crashing a helicopter into Happyland, Emmerdale-style) but sometimes even when she's happily playing independently, I'll go over and join in because I want to. Because I enjoy it. Not out of martyrdom, not because I feel I have to, but because I genuinely want to.

Other people don't. That's fine! Live your life, parent your way, etc etc. Just don't judge those who do enjoy that kind of thing as all being "mummy martyrs"!

I don't really have hobbies outside of the home any more, because of the amount of time they took up when I'd rather be with DD. That doesn't make me "one-dimensional" or whatever someone upthread suggested - I work full time and have hobbies at home that I can talk about. Or I can talk about DD. If someone finds that "one-dimensional and boring", I'd rather not be in their company any more.

I always see so much said about "smug mums judging people who don't parent the way they do", but right now it seems to be the other way around - there's a lot of judgement directed at those who do change their lives to fit in with their children.

Good luck with your ambitions! As many have said, a lot will depend on the nature of any children you may have, but I believe you can resist them running your lives completely, however you must both agree to the 'rules', both stick to them and back each other up.

Hmm. There's a pretty major difference between saying "kids probably won't do what you want just because you've decided ahead of time how you'd like them to behave" and "you should have no life or identity outside of your children ever".

The "majority" of posts didn't suggest anything of the sort - most have advocated for a bit of flexibility and common sense in the face of no experience.

I really find it offensive when people talk about how their mothers gave up everything for their kids but they weren't as "cool" or "glamorous" as other mothers. How bloody ungrateful! How dismissive of the work and care of hundreds of millions of women around the world who make this choice (and no, I haven't even come close to giving up everything for my kids, work, study,have a healthy social life and hobbies, so not responding due to personal affront).

I completely agreed with everything you said before I had children. But the reality is the opposite especially when you have 2 or 3 kids.

The thing is - it's not going to be like when we were kids, just like when we were kids it wasn't like when our parents were kids (and being caned and all sorts). Times have changed, the world is less safe (or at least we're aware of it more) and so this generation doesn't have the same freedom etc.

You won't want your kids to be different from your peers. Children today get more than we did and the world revolves around them more, it's just how society has developed. If you fight it to an extreme extent your kids will be different and as they grow up they'll notice this.

Fab point as well that your memories won't be of being a baby / toddler. There is just no negotiating sometimes (all the time) with this species!!

I'm not ungrateful or dismissive thank you. I love my mother, she is my best friend. However, there were times I could feel resentment from her because she was bored/ fed up of staying at home mummydum. That said, she never did anything to change that so she can't have disliked it that much. Do I think her life could have been more varied and interesting though? Yes. That's just my opinion, not a criticism.

I remember a friend of DH's claiming their life hadn't changed after having a baby, they were home bodies already to be fair but it was utter bollox. How can it not change, as a couple you don't have the freedom to just go out anywhere, although a very calm baby can help until they are a toddler who is walking and talking and into everything. Our first was a very screamy fussy baby so our lives were unrecognisable. Add to that childcare being too expensive to make it worth going back to work and my life has change beyond recognition. No trips into the city, lazy Sunday lunches in the pub, no holidays, no lie ins, no work and meeting friends for lunch or after work drinks and definitely no shopping trips unless baby related. Add a second child and you stand no chance regardless of the first being a calm content baby who sleeps anywhere. Two feels like more then double the work once they start interacting - I still have time with one or the other and it's bliss in comparison.

So the only way to try to still have your own life as before if if you get a calm first baby and stop there. You will still have feeding, nappies, then nursery/school runs, activities, parties and homework but only the one and you don't have to do those if you can farm it out to family or paid help.

I had a friend over and both kids, I tried to talk to my friend but just stopped bothering as she was paying more attention to the kids. I ended up banning them from sitting with us so I could have a chat. DH is also likely to ignore me in favour of the kids meaning I just don't bother talking to him at all until the kids are in bed. You can't predict how your DH/friends/family will be even if you are sure about how you will cope. I've also ended up disabled and in chronic pain by my second pregnancy so my life is even more restricted and unlike my pre child days. I don't even have control of how messy the house is and if I put down something, even in a draw safely, it won't necessarily be there when I next need it. Life is out of my control to a large extent now and yes it's not always fun. If you can't face giving up some control and freedom then don't have kids. Not having kids is a great choice, my sister sees us and is happy each time that she doesn't have any. She has spent time with them alone and knows the reality of not being able to truly control their behaviour - DC1 is suspected ADHD but wants to be good and is kind and generous so we've done somethings right even if she interrupts and can't sit still.

A lovely friend of my sister wrote a letter of apology to my sister for her twattish remarks made when she was heavily pregnant with her PFB and Dsis struggling with 2 year old and newborn (nothing mean just airily saying how she would not have a non sleeping baby because she would do x and z) .

The majority of posts on this thread have implied if you have a life and interests outside of your children and have an identity other than 'Mum' and 'Dad' that the children will automatically be or feel neglected and grow up into dysfunctional, miserable beings.

Nobody said that.

I, for instance, have just suggested that the OP might have to adjust her expectations according to what kind of child(ren) DC is/are, and what kind of parent she feels compelled to be when she lives with them. Money and family/friends can help enormously. Lack of them to hand does the opposite.

You can retain the bits of yourself you are motivated to keep. Sometimes the trade off isn't wort it, though. You develop new bits too.

Woowoos, if you had said you wished she wasn't bored, that would seem very different to suggesting she wasn't glamourous or "well rounded", and that you "admired" women who lived their lives differently more.

I imagine she would be devastated to characterise your thoughts about her in that way?

It's wonderful you have a loving relationship and you are very lucky to have that with your mum - just consider her perspective if she read your words? You don't have to want to live the same sort of life as her and of course you can say that you would have preferred a life with more variety, that would interest you more - but you will never know how it would be to have had another mother with a different sort of approach to life, and you wouldn't be you and she wouldn't be who she is if things were different.

*to see you characterise

The majority of posts on this thread have implied if you have a life and interests outside of your children and have an identity other than 'Mum' and 'Dad' that the children will automatically be or feel neglected and grow up into dysfunctional, miserable beings.

It's a balance - if you have outside help it's much easier to keep doing things babies, toddlers or fractious children would disrupt.

I lived somewhere where very few of us had family - so we helped each other out.

Move to another place where everyone had family - our family don't help out even in serious medical emergencies partly distance mostly attitude -it was much harder - it did stop us doing things even delayed medical treatments as HCP couldn't grasp there was no help so wouldn't make allowances.

At same time because my children have to come out with me to do things they have learnt they have to behave - they don't get away with running riot and I've learnt tricks to help that - distractions books, comics. I've had surprised about how well they behave - it's something we've had to enforce and work hard at to be able to function.

Money and time meant DH had to give up meetings round his hobby for a few years - now children are older and money is less tight he's taken meeting back up and some of our children love going along with him and getting involved. So you can pick things back up when children get older.

I think flexibility pays off. DN father spends Saturday morning of his contact time having DN stand at sidelines of football game while he plays. DN hates it - is completely ignored and consequently has massive resentment - no adjustment is made for DN.

I get the OP bemusement. I thought babies slept in cots - never heard of co-sleeping wasn't something we would do - ended up co-sleeping with all three for several years.

Naive.

OP your remarks remind me very much of a couple DH and I were good friends with. They were very judgmental we had DD1 and proclaimed that when they had a child it would have to fit in with their life. Of all our friends that had children this couple coped with the change the worst, it was a complete shock to them. In fact their child is almost 10 and we haven't seen them much since.

While I understand that you might not want to loose yourself completely in motherhood , be open to the idea that your life is going to change as this little person someone is completely dependent on you and enjoy all that this brings.

I think it really depends which part of your friends you're seeing when you're making these snap judgements about their parenting OP.

For example. My SIL thinks I'm an indulgent child-obsessed arsehole because I wouldn't leave my baby for a day to attend her child-free wedding. In her view, me attending would have given me a lovely break from my baby to have a much-needed adult day. Her judgement of me means we don't really speak now.

On the other hand, one of my friends thinks I'm superwoman because we took the same 4 month old to the other side of the world to visit them. I climbed hills with this friend just like we had done ten years ago with baby napping or feeding happily in a carrier as we walked and when we stopped for lunch DS often slept or just gurgled on my lap. She made me feel great.

I know you say you're not commenting to your friends on how they do things but I bet they pick up on your silent judgements. Your supportive mantra should be, 'I'm glad that works for you, every family is different', and yes repeat this even just to yourself as much as possible.

Leaving aside the daft stuff about iPhones and birth plans, it's good you and your DH are discussing how you want to raise your kids together. But such an inflexible approach rarely ends well, especially if you change your mind on things and he doesn't.

One other thing: my parents came round for lunch today, we had to finish up early and send them off so DS could have his nap at a decent time. If that hadn't happened, he'd have been up half the evening and me and DH wouldn't have had any adult time together. Parenting is about compromise, not everything being just how you want it all the time.

*We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting.
*
Thing is though, 'who you are' will change after you have a baby, it just will. You don't have to lose who you are, you add to it. And you'll find new things interesting.

For most people it's finding a balance that works for the whole family - all families are different as to where that will be. When I look at friends those with just one child tend to lead more adult focused lives - because it's easier to do so. With 3 it's much harder and changes as they get older. With 2 teens and a 9 yr old weekends are filled with watching them play hockey, rugby and football. However I can now go the gym whilst DD swims. They've all learned to enjoy long walks. Holidays are a compromise but we try to do something that we all enjoy. Teens can be good company but you can't put them to bed at 7 like a 2 year old - so TV viewing can be a compromise!

I hate it when threads descend (as they inevitably do once this size) into people claiming that if you don't agree with the OP's assertion it can only be because you are

Thats what we all say! And then we realise that children just don't seem to mix with pubs and parties and adult friendly things, although we do try on occasion! That said we are taking our 2 and 4 year old DDs to Vietnam for two weeks on Thursday - which will be an adventure. Try not to lose too much of yourselves, and don't be one of those a mums who won't leave the house because of naps and mealtimes. Be a mobile parent - teach them to sleep in the buggy (if you can!) and take lunch and an endless supply of snacks with you wherever you go, and hope for the best. But when tired and hungry children want to go home, they have all sorts of ways of making sure that's exactly what happens! Apart from that you will learn to love CBeebies like we all do...good luck!

thewocketinyourpocket How you have described your children is exactly what I am talking about. That is how I was raised and that is how we would like to raise our children.

The wocket isn't describing her children, but her own childhood. I think if you'd asked her parents if putting aside their career dreams in order to move to a child-friendly town with relatives nearby who could support the children in their extra-curricular activities was just having their kids fit into their pre-parenthood lives, they would probably say, along with all the other parents on the thread, that it was a sacrifice, but totally worth it.