To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

You either one or the other.

The 'night away thing' grates on me.

You have children, they are your responsibility, why do parents constantly want to leave them and have 'me' time.

It's nice if you can but some people play on it.

I saw a earlier someone posting on FB for a babysitter for her 3 month old, overnight, while they went away.

Personally I don't feel like 'time away'

Havent read the thread but I was raised as you suggest OP.

I only remember my mother thinking of herself and her own needs and wants. It was never about us. Ever. We were good well behaved children. We had to be. It was all about mum. I remember being bored in our bedrooms most saturday mornings waiting for mum to stop wathching her shitty tv programmes and take us out.

I was allowed to watch the news but worried constantly about nuclear weapons testing. I was old enough to remember Chernobyl and that cartoon about a nuclear disaster in Britain "when the wind blows" was very popular and we ha read it. I could have done with out that anxiety about the world ending in nuclear war at 9 years old.

It is very very boring to be a child who is expected to be a mini adult.

Maybe skip having children?

Even if you have a very laid back baby, you will become like your friends to some extent. God help you if your child has any medical issues. If you want to keep your life as it is now, don't have children - they're not mandatory and guess what, they do change your life.

Hehehe is this an early April fools!!!!

It's biological. You push that baby out and it's your sole responsibility to keep her alive. You become obsessed with her feeding etc. You have to be - or she dies. This becomes less intense as the weeks go by but it's always there. Most parents genuinely put everything else second. Because nothing else is nearly as important.

I do think that before you become a parent it's difficult to get your head round not putting yourself first. When you become a parent, it's like you're teleported into an alternate universe. Putting your child's needs first sort of becomes natural, you don't really give it much thought. Your child needs looking after, no one is going to do that for you so you don't have a choice really, especially in the early days when they're so reliant on you for everything, but to have your life revolve around the dc's.

Being at home for 7pm so the dc's can go to bed at an appropriate time probably seems silly and over protective to a lot of non-parents. But most non-parents don't see or have to deal with overtired and cranky children over the coming days. It all comes together and you finally 'get it' when you become a parent yourself.

No, you won't sit around all night watching CBeebies it finishes at 7, but anyway because you'll hardly sit down!

You have very firm expectations OP, I hope you'll relax and enjoy parenthood when the time comes. I think my daughter is my best friend. My son will be too once he's older. My girl is a completely crazy person but she's my crazy person, and I love to spend time with her.

I still get chills thinking of the time I tried not to keep looking over at toddling pfb while talking to a friend over lunch to be "cool", only to find he had wandered off. He had followed other children away to the far side of the park before I found him. Never again.

Who wouldn't want to be 'chums' with their kids? How sad.

You absolutely can raise children this way, I was. The only way you can do it is by being a tyrant to the child, making them afraid of you and making them understand that they come second and what parents want comes first. With everything.

Fine. Go ahead with it.

Are you intending to employ a couple of full time nannies?

We chose to have children to enjoy spending time with them and we organise our lives around them yes as they are part of the FAMILY . They in turn organise themselves with our commitments. Please don't bother having children as they might inconvenience you.... Heavens they might get sick or need an adult.

A (single, no DC) friend of ours said something very similar to us recently over New Years as we made our excuses for not staying overnight at his house party. we both laughed our heads of in the car on the way home because there's no way he can understand. We don't hold against him because it's the sort of thing I'd have said pre-DC.

I can't really put it into words how your priorities change. I've discovered I'm much less selfish as a person since having DC. It's empowering.

Also do not underestimate the powers of sleep deprivation. Sleep is becomes paramount - staying up til 1am at a house party when you've got up 3 times in a night, every night for the previous 10 months (and risk making it worse by ruining any
routine you were clinging to)? Fuck that!

Ha ha, I've only read the first and last post so apologies if it's been done to death but you really have made me smile OP.
Please do come back when you've got some kids and let us know how it's going.
Ha ha ha ha ha

My folks raised my brother and I the way you described, but they also gave up a lot for us. They both took jobs at a university that they didn't really want so we kids would get tuition remission and thus free uni. They also made a point to let us be involved in whatever extracurricular activities we wanted, and we were lucky that our grandmother lived close enough to drive us to and from the afterschool stuff (we lived in the country and their work was an hour's drive away). So I got to do soccer, band, winterguard, academic bowl, science club, the whole lot... they supported my efforts with vigor, BUT they made no guarantees to attend all matches/events, and expected us to be mindful of them being exhausted after a day's work. There were no baby monitors when we were small, and they did not give in to our demands, but rather refuted them. I used to LOVE watching X-filed when I was around 4/5 years old, but it would give me nightmares. So instead of NOT watching X-files, my parents began to put me to bed early, haha! I would crrryyy and crryyy, "MUUULLLDEERRR!!! SCULLLY!!!!" and eventually fall asleep bitter but nightmare free.

At home, my brother and I were on their schedule. If we were bored, we entertained ourselves. If we needed something, we got it ourselves. We did all the chores, except on Saturdays when everybody pitched in together. We could watch what we wanted while they weren't home, but once they came in the front door, it was time for the news. If family friends came over, or if we were taken with them to the house of a family friend, we were expected to remain quiet in another room, and it stayed that way until we were in our teens and old enough to hear and participate in adult conversation. Kids didn't get special meals... but we were always the first to fill our plates and could get an extra dessert if we said please.

I grew up with the notion that children were to respect adults. And in return, the adults respected us too. I quickly learned that if I stayed quiet and occupied myself with a cat or a book instead of trying to climb all over my mom, the adults would let me stay in the room and I would hear the most amazing conversations about the private lives of other family members, coworkers, politics, music, religion, all the fun stuff! Today, those same family friends are now MY friends, too.

It's definitely possible, OP, so don't lose sight of what you and your partner want. But my parents did have a few factors on their side: Firstly, my brother is 8.5 years older than I am, so often times he was able to act as my babysitter. Secondly, we have a large extended family, and both sets of grandparents live in the area. Thirdly, we live in a very safe and tiny town where nothing much happens and there's not much to do aside from walk in the woods or around the town (both of which we did with vigor).

I haven't rtft just dipped in and out.

I'm sure you could do what you want with kids as far as letting them 'rule the roost' goes.

When I was pregnant, even before my first child was born, I knew that I just couldn't be the parent who was like that. I had my kids so they could be part of the family. Even as a teeny tiny child my daughter's thoughts and opinion have value to me, the sand with her brother now he's here.

I love that my house is obviously full of kids lots of the time, that my family comes first and that my life has changed.

I feel complete in a way I couldn't imagine was possible before I had my family, (I've always wanted kids), and I choose to let them be the biggest part of things because I want them to have the childhood I had. We wreck the joint making dens, paint, bake, walk, go on nature hunts, have sofa and telly days.

I still go out with friends, have evenings with H and cook nice meals etc. But for us, the kids are the thing and many many friends without kids don't get that at all.

I think yanbu op. I agree with you to some extent, although it is true you don't know what it is like until you have dc. There are people who seem to run themselves ragged, constantly entertaining the children, making all trips out about hanging around playgrounds/ doing child friendly activities, ferrying them around to every club under the sun.

You can't go on as before, dh and I enjoyed scaling munroes for example ...... . But we do expect the children to walk a few miles which people are often about. The way I see it is that everyone in the house has equal priority. I also think that children should have to amuse themselves when needed. In terms of social life though generally going out in the evening is less of a priority for me than it was, sad though it is I'd rather read a book

There is probably some fable or other about how things that are rigid snap in the wind whereas the tree that bends with it lives on. I think parenting is like this. It is absolutely fine to have a plan for how you are going to parent your children but you need to be flexible and go with the flow. If you stick rigidly to a plan, something is likely to break.

There is nothing wrong with having a plan.
There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong and amending that plan.

IME running your schedule around your children's needs enables you to get more of what you need.
Eg The price of keeping your child up late at night one night because it suits you is probably going to be that they are tired and correspondingly hard work and badly behaved the following day.
This can be a high price to pay for BOTH of you.

I think as long as you are prepared to accept that things will be constantly changing, it will all be fine, OP, and at posters who have said OP should not have her own children.

Pre-DC, I used to give and attend a lot of dinner parties. 3 weeks post-DC, I attended a dinner party no problems at all, with a Bf newborn under a shawl at the table. For me, it was mobility that really turned things on their head. DS is now 2, and there is no way on earth he could manage a dinner party. When we rarely entertain people here, he hears the noise and will not go to sleep, and if we try to put him to bed as normal he will have proper hysterics. I am lucky in that I have big family and babysitters available, but, DS will go to bed fine for me, his dad or GM, but plays up with anyone else. Coming home at 2230 recently to find him still up and completely hyper was a bit of a downer on the evening tbh. But, as he gets older things will improve again.

I agree that some people are martyrs to doing child-only stuff. I know that for my own sanity, we need to get out of the house every non work day., but I almost always make sure that we do something for me then too, not just for DC. I love playing with duplo, and DS has had to entertain himself (safely) pretty much since birth for short periods. He can now play for about an hour with minimal interaction so I can get things done, which is how it has to be so we can eat proper meals and not live in squalor. I agree it is all about compromise.

My mum said to me early on that it is important to keep hold of yourself as well as the children, as children will only be with you for a brief time, and you will need to be able to lead a happy and fulfilled life as an empty-nester. I can see the sense in this, and I am trying to carry on with things I used to enjoy in my old life as well as just collapsing in the sofa in exhaustion after bedtime. I think it is important for DC to see you as a person in your own right, not just their parent.

That was long, sorry.

Oh for goodness sake, some of the responses on this thread are ridiculous.

I am genuinely surprised at the amount of Mother Teresa, completely altruistic, martyr mummy types on here.

I KNOW couples that have had children and still manage to keep their identity and a life for themselves after having them.

In fact, I know a lot of those (My hobby is more of a lifestyle than a hobby and therefore once women in this sport have children, they still continue the sport because really, its all they've ever known and who they are to some extent) and the children, all, without doubt seem happier and well behaved than the couples I know who do nothing else but look after their children and be 'mummy and daddy' and no, that's not because of financial restrictions or anything else. It's just simply because they chose too. Which is fine, expect it makes them incredibly one dimensional people whose children come across as entitled and pandered too, neither of which is all that attractive to other people.

The majority of posts on this thread have implied if you have a life and interests outside of your children and have an identity other than 'Mum' and 'Dad' that the children will automatically be or feel neglected and grow up into dysfunctional, miserable beings. That's really not the case. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Yes, support in terms of child minding and finances do play a part, as does the child in question, but where there is a will there is often a way. I guess there just isn't much will really to retain some form of former selves once reproduction has begun for many of MNers though.

I hate this constant competition about who is the best parent, you're only good parents if you devote every fibre of your being to your children and shaming parents who like to retain that bit of them. It's absurd, and not necessary. There IS a middle ground.

I love my mum to bits, but as soon as we were born she gave up work and spent nearly 20 years at home, looking after us and the house. She is I guess what you would call a devoted mummy and now grandmother and it really IS all about the children for her. Whilst I love her for it, I can't help but admire more a couple of my friends mum's who always seemed to glamorous and well rounded (no pun intended) throughout motherhood. They retained careers, busy social lives and to me anyway, seemed like much more interesting people in comparison to my own darling mum.

Well said, woowoos. A sane voice of reason at last.

OP I have just read your update from yesterday afternoon. I'm sorry it sounds like you have had / are having a bumpy ride towards motherhood.

Soo.. I mean this well.

I was adopted aged 5 by a couple in their 40's who had not been able to have their own DC. Everyone thought it was a perfect solution, except that 1) they hadn't come to terms with not having their own DC and 2) their notions of child rearing had not been shaped by the baby years. The result? I was a massive disappointment to them, because I didn't meet those impossible standards.

I was also the child who wasn't allowed to watch TV or have new technology. That made it really hard for me at school, because I was the odd one out.

So I wish you well with being a parent, but please roll with it. It will be OK and you will love your DC more than you can believe possible. Just don't be a dick.

Last year close friends of ours were imminently expecting their baby and we spent an amusing evening with them where they regaled us with their plans for said baby and how it was going to slot in neatly with them.

Dh and I listened with a straight face and then pissed ourselves laughing all the way home.

Your life as you know it implodes when you have kids. Nothing will be the same and no baby will understand your plans for it to fit in nicely and quietly