cultural appropriation

[nceccoli]

Just had a discussion. aibu to say that cultural appropriation works both ways? A number of black bloggers and models have slated Kim Kardashian and Kylie jenner for wearing "boxer braids". But I have yet to see anyone commenting on Beyonce culturally appropriate Indian culture , hairstyle, dress and adornment for her song Hymn for the Weekend?

Kanaka I know you asked a question before and no one seems to have answered about the house n-word. It refers to the mix race slaves or the lighter skin slaves who were allowed to work in the house instead of the field because of their skin colour. They were pricier than the others. Most were either offsprings of their masters sleeping with the slaves or raped women because they wanted their children for sale.

I thought it was a term for slaves who worked/trained domestically for housework childcare, butler/maid and service. It was derogatory at some point because they were seen by some civil rights campaigners as 'too white' and too close to 'understanding' the values of society whites and plantation owners.. But also tended to be more educated and better treated 'one of the family' in some cases which angered the 'fieldnegros' but it was a term of abuse, because of the adoption of values of'the enemy'

Lanark it is because of the skin colour. That is why a lot of black Americans complained when the movie "the butler " was made because Mariah Carey played a slave in the field. Writers commented by saying that she would have never worked in the field picking cotton. She would have been priced and made to look after the house including bringing up the masters children. That's what people mean when they use the word.

Have read the whole thread now (after getting annoyed by the mixing up of hairstyles!!)

As a white woman (with all the unconscious privilege that provides), my view would be that the blurring of cultures as a 'style' is quite a natural progression of a shrunken world (with Internet etc everybody has access to a myriad of stuff that they wouldn't have seen or known about in the parochial bubbles that 'we' used to live in).

I would call out anyone that appears to making a caricature of, or mocking a culture/race; I would roll my eyes at 'right on' people appropriating race/culture/style/class because it's 'cool' or they apparently 'identify with the struggles' (usually white people with black/Asian looks, or upper/middle class folk with working class pretensions etc).

I think however (my opinion), is that the natural blurring and adopting of different styles and dress is a good thing overall as it works towards eliminating a them & us social culture (iyswim).

Anyway, I'm white and can't begin to understand what it feels like to a black or mixed race person, so this is purely just how I perceive it all.

I don't think it's right to say women cannot understand prejudice! In the UK we sadly are much more up and arms about race discriminatoin and the sex discrimination women face day in day out. Men discriminate against women in a way they would never be allowed to do if it were a racial slight. Both discriminateions are right but it's not correct that women who suffer discrimination cannot understand discrimination against other types of people such as men, the disabled and any other group - women know only too well what discrimination feels like.

Are you saying that black people have appropriated chimpanzee culture, wtf?!?!

Shocking, isn't it.

This thread has grown! Catching up should be amusing

But with kim kylie and the rest of them it's not just the hair. It is the bum, the lips, the fake tan so they are about 4 shades darker. The dating black men, rapping, dressing in 'hip hop' clothing yet they don't give a shit about black people.

What have they ever done for black people? When have they ever spoken out on black issues?

What have they ever done for black people? When have they ever spoken out on black issues?

To be fair they would probably get a load of shit if they did

She's gone from a white girl to looking like a mixed or Latino girl.

Imo she wants to be black.
When a white person has cain rows or a big bum or big lips everyone is obsessed with them. Like it is a new thing. It's not.

For anyone on here who thinks that black people should be over slavery, I would recommend a trip to the International Slavery Museum in Liverpool. I'm white. It made me cry.
www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/

But why are people so worried about people changing their look, and why is it worse to go in the black direction, or any other cultural direction, I don't get it. If I want to darken my hair and get a tan, why is the fear end of that equation linked with anything bad? Its just weird to me.

nonamenopackdrill

No one is listening ! It's all about plaits , and why it's ok to have cornrows -and such trivia
Yada Yada

Globalization has meant that we now more aware of other cultures and lifestyles. I cannot see how we can say that certain hair braiding should be exclusive to one group of people and that others cannot adopt this to any degree

I dont get CA. Whether you like it or not the world (at least most of the western world) has some degree of multiculturalism. And so language/styles/fashions will be seen, shared and copied and has been going on forever. CA just seems to be about putting up divisions between different cultures and I dont think that helps anyone. Where do you draw the line? Bagpipes, tea, hairdos, clothes?

I'm white and have the 'black' bum and thigh shape - I was over the moon when the big bums started to be celebrated (pre-kardashian) - please don't lump unchangeable body shape in with appropriation!

Deo, if the comment about not being able to appreciate prejudice was directed to me, then I disagree.
I do know what prejudice is, I have experienced harassment and discrimination etc as a woman, but I've no idea what being black is like so I can't claim that I do.

It's all about plaits ... and such trivia

I like trivia :) And know about fashion, which I don't consider all that insignificant.

White men & women have been plaiting hair for thousands of years, as have all the other people. As soon as you know how to make rope, then it's obvious you will braid hair as well. Dreads have been popular through the ages too. Viking men, who generally plaited their hair, wore dreads for marauding as it looked more scary - or, I think, because crossing oceans in open boats made dreads inevitable. It now seems apparent that some of the Viking invaders were black. Europe, North Africa and Western Asia have been 'racially' mixed since forever; white people were the most commonly enslaved until the wholesale plundering of Africa began.

Pirates and other seafaring types have also been described as wearing what amounts to dreadlocks as well as plaits. Pirates came in all colours, and some of the most respected were women. When you read old descriptions of sailors, they have pigtails - which were plaits.

Mediaeval artists weren't very good at hair - they painted a solid block, then drew lines on it, so you have to look carefully at the style to figure out how the subject's hair was done.

Pictures coming up, because trivia

1. Chap with plait in foreground.
2. Clear braids in foreground. The people are at a bath house, which often doubled as a brothel as seems to be the case here. The trailing word banners are mediaeval speech bubbles.
3. The woman in the blue dress has the same hairstyle as the one in the second picture. This is a birthing scene.

1. The man at top right has his hair in a plait. Two women at top left have their hair braided around the head.
2. Near-contemporary portrait of Blackbeard, whose trademark was plaiting his copious beard as well as his hair. He wove brightly-coloured ribbons into his plaits.
3. Loads of different plaited styles on these women, including cornrows on the redhead at top left.

That was fun! I ended up diverging into lesbians in mediaeval art, the history of rape laws, and all kinds of other gubbins - gotta love the internet!

Globalization has meant that we now more aware of other cultures and lifestyles. I cannot see how we can say that certain hair braiding should be exclusive to one group of people and that others cannot adopt this to any deg

The argument with this is that it takes a white person to make a hairstyle considered ugly worthy of any attention. Or a type of lip considered clown lips when you use red lipstick to be considered pretty enough. The problem is not just with white people but black people perpetuates the stereotypes by internalising it and passing it on down the generation.

This is as far as I have got with trying to find 'white culture'

hilarious (and true

If you perceive that the most "successful" oppressors in recent times have been white, does this make it okay to ridicule & belittle them as stupid and without culture, Ubik?

I've heard wealthy white English men doing that for a few centuries.

Is it something to aspire to?

Garlic most of the plaits you shown of the women are those that in today's society is actually accepted. Also think you see a lot if it on pagan virgins and ferries with flowers all over it. The ones that people frowned upon are the African decent ones.

Still the point people are missing with this debate is the type of braiding. It's like debating about types of hair cut. Some are accepted and others are frowned upon.

It's ok to ridicule anyone and everyone.

I suppose they were white. Stalin was white. Although Pol Pot wasn't. Nor Mugabe.

"Hummus" lol

Chinese.
Russians.
Turks.
Egyptians.
Europeans.

Global oppressors who ravaged massive areas, abusing and killing people who were different from themselves.

We could also look into African history and observe how various tribes plundered and enslaved others. See also indigenous Latin Americans. Not to mention all the shit that went on in what is now Russia.

One universal outcome of oppression is the cultural assimilation that eventually develops. Criticise this if you like, but I'd counsel caution if you want to label one "race" as bad and the rest as good.

they look like dutch braids to me, I do those on my girls all the time. often just one large one, from front right round the head to the left hand side, everyones always asking me to their daughters for them.

sometimes I use it to do a halo around the head with flowers for weddings. to me it's a hairstyle that anyone can use.

I'm south Asian mendi is norm in our culture, but I don't like it except the Arab dark henna, but even then I have no patience to sit with hours for a dark colour. but if a non Asian did it I wouldn't think it weird. in the uk anyone can go into these Asian beauty stores and get someone to do it. or if they have a friend or neighbour even better get it done for free.

gosh if you want to wear a sari or borrow a lehenga I really don't care, my parents would be very chuffed if they saw this occur, take it as a compliment.

Titus that's a very good comment you made regarding native indian culture. I have seen it used on America's next top model, the native indian headwear, and although I'm south Asian I felt uneasy by it, I guess I felt it was morally wrong.