to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists?

[parklyfe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

''When split out by gender, women were more likely to identify as feminist, with nine per cent using the label compared to four per cent of men.''

MephistophelesApprentice I can't open your link but does the suggestion that we put all men in concentration camps seem like a reasonable one to you?

It doesn't to me so until I can read Julie Bindel's article and be convinced otherwise, I'll disagree with it and continue calling myself a feminist.

Limited ... not really a reasonable assessment, no. Soldier did win the sex discrimination element of her case because she was a female with childcare issues which was the point I'd tried to make. I was then challenged to give examples of other recent cases regarding night shifts, flexible working etc which I did. I didn't post annoying links but I provided the tribunal case names in case anyone was interested.
What is TAAT anyway?

'I mean, anyone can claim to be a feminist but it's the ideas behind that claim that matter.'

That's precisely it. Feminism should simply be about equality - but it's not. It's about a specific thought process and set of political ideals as set out by feminists which is why the majority of people don't identify as such. I fail to see what is so difficult to comprehend.

TAAT - thread about a thread. A complete no-no on MN

It is depressing but I doubt the Torygraph's data. This YouGov poll gives the figure as 35% of women.

yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/09/still-need-feminism-dont-call-us-feminism/

MephistophelesApprentice I can't open your link but does the suggestion that we put all men in concentration camps seem like a reasonable one to you?

You asked for examples of extreme feminists. I have provided three.

If you want an example of an extreme feminist who dominates the limelight, well, Julie Bindel is still a columnist at the Guardian alongside Jessica 'Men-need-to-be-more-emotional-but-lets-mock-male-tears' Valenti.

Tarring a whole group due to the actions of a few seems a bit unfair.

Like posters saying 'Men: Don't Rape'?

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Sex-equality-state-of-the-nation-230116.pdf

This, I think is the source for the Telegraph's data.

Apologies for the link. I'd summarise, but I haven't read it yet.

Rafa, for the love of sanity, don't use links. Don't expect people to take time out to read stuff and think about it!

There was a lot if aggression and vitriol on it though. I was quite shocked. I had assumed that women would mostly be united in a wish for equal rights. I made a few points - contributing to a reasoned discussion i thought - and almost everything I said was jumped on by one poster"
That is an outrageous misrepresentation of the thread concerned!

Hard core feminism, my 18 year old self soon decided, was just as restrictive and controlling of women as any patriarchal society.

I prefer working as a collective as a free child. I am not so keen on working in patriarchal critical parent, adapted/rebellious child way, it's like being back at school.

honeylulu You brought up the issue of night shifts, flexible working etc and were asked for examples. As you are a solicitor, and therefore used to dealing with case history, I don't think that was an unreasonable request.

The case you talked about without knowing much about was about sex discrimination but was complicated by matters of recruitment policy in foreign countries and had a strong element of what the panel considered to be a reasonable approach by an employer. All of which became clear in that damn pesky link provided calmly by a helpful poster. Who didn't jump on you.

I don't think I am either. I just think it's important to give the full picture so that people can decide on the facts. As a solicitor, don't you agree?

Errr not to be flippant but if everyone was a feminist then we wouldn't need feminism would we? Practically the founding belief of feminism is that we don't have an equal society - inequalities (to women and other groups) are deeply entrenched. So since we (feminists) know we don't have an equal society, why would we be surprised that many people are either not committed to equality or at least don't recognise where there is inequality?

To women and other groups

So - equalism then?

to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists

Not surprising when you see any kind of discussion/news item from child maintenance to sexual harrassment and women rallying to scream that 'men have it tough/never had it so bad/losing their rights' (ROFL)

I agree equal rights for everyone. I don't particularly call myself a feminist. I don't feel the need to label myself. I do think on here though there are some ridiculous things written in the name of feminism. I have hidden the feminism board as it gets a bit weary.

Some examples. A poster writes a thread about what to cook dh for dinner, or she has burnt her husband shirt when ironing. Early on in the thread you get people saying why are you cooking him dinner, or ironing his shirts, I have never ironed anything of my dhs and I never will. I find this ridiculous. I cook my dh his dinner, I make him a packed lunch and I do the majority of the washing. However, I do very little cleaning, have hardly used the Hoover as dh does most of that, he also does the vast majority of the ironing. It isn't about being feminist or brow beaten into doing things. Different things work for different households.

Many feminists irritate me. "Oh he held the door open for me, he's such a pig. Clearly he's a chauvinist pig" or maybe he held the door open to be nice because it's polite to hold doors open for people."

Any feminist who said that to you is an ill mannered git.

The problem is that there are a handful of memes about rude aggressive feminists that are always quoted- so either there are a lot of women pissing people off by saying one of about 3 bonkers things repeatedly, OR they are all urban myths. Like the ones about Europe and straight bananas and "Council bans Christmas". All on a constant loop until people believe them and even sometimes come to believe they have actually had them said to them. My perfectly lovely MIL told me that Bradford council had banned Christmas lights so as not to upset Muslims "while standing under a lit up sign saying "Merry Christmas" -with holly.

So I can well believe that some people genuinely think that schools aren't allowed to teach history any more- it has to be " Herstory" Or that feminists shout at people who hold doors open for them. Or that feminists hate men and want to dominate them. Because we are all constantly being fed crap like this by the media.

I find it interesting that 67% of people questioned are "sympathetic to feminism", meaning they agree with equality of opportunity for women and men. That only 7% of people would say that they are a feminist no longer surprises me. "Feminist" seems to have become a major insult and feminism something to hold in total contempt. I don't understand why.

I'm not worried in the slightest what some posters post on the Feminist boards on MN. Sometimes I agree with a lot of what is said. Sometimes I don't. Funnily enough, I don't take it as representative of Feminism with a capital F, I just take it for what it is, which is the views of some specific people who are happy to say they are feminists. There are many different types of feminism depending on how the issue of equality is perceived and how it might be addressed. I might agree with some types of feminism but not others. I don't reject the whole concept of feminism as a result.

Why do people on these threads say 'that never happened' when someone mentions certain replies they have got from feminists?

It happened yesterday when I posted that I was told I couldn't be a feminist because I changed my name upon marriage. I was then told it didn't happen and I need to prove it isn't our word enough? Why are some so insistent that the people who have been told they aren't a good enough feminist are lying or simply misunderstood?

You asked for examples of extreme feminists. I have provided three.

Thanks for that Mephistopheles. In the spirit of sharing I offer Valerie Solanas.

Surely you wouldn't say she was representative of feminism? Just like David Icke is not a representative of the otherwise legitimate belief that powerful Establishment figures are involved in concealing wrong doing from time to time.

Or perhaps not. I don't know.

There is an argument that Solanas's SCUM Manifesto was a joke that was taken seriously by people with no sense of the ridiculous. I have no comment on that.

Julie Bindels' comment about putting men in camps, was a joke.

So - equalism then?

Haha - I don't mean that all possible groups are discriminated against, what an odd inference!