to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists?

[parklyfe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

''When split out by gender, women were more likely to identify as feminist, with nine per cent using the label compared to four per cent of men.''

So they seem to have been asked to choose between 7 statements.

1. I am a feminist
2. I believe in equality for women and men but don't describe myself as a feminist
3. I feel excluded by feminism 4)I think feminism is irrelevant
4. I am opposed to feminism
5. I don't know what feminism stands for
6. none of the above.

I can see where they've got the 9% of women from. I'm not sure how they've got the 67% that are supportive of equality from that question though.

Which might explain why it differs from the % of people who either wanted equality for the women in their lives of themselves, which was 83%.

Like the SCUM Manifesto then, Cleaty?

Damn those feminists wrongfooting people by having a sense of humour .

The quote was that - All men are potential rapists.
This was written in the context of an essay explaining that when a woman is walking down an empty dark street at night by herself and sees a man by himself, she does not know if he is a rapist or not. So she has to take precautions as if all men she meets like this, might be rapists.

Why does "one (or a few, perhaps even several people) person was aggressive/unpleasant to me, and they were a feminist" become "all feminists are aggressive/unpleasant and feminism is therefore a hateful concept"? Does this happen in other discussions too?

I'm not a fan of the SCUM Manifesto myself.
But Bindel's comment was clearly a joke.

There are plenty of TV ad campaigns saying 'don't speed', 'don't drink and drive' etc - no one thinks that they 'tar' all drivers!

"The nuance is that equality within the structures that presently exist isn't that good, so all of society must be radically reconstructed with new definitions for people to be equal.

From what I have seen of the people who support this view (which I believe to be the 'radical feminist' position) it would be a redefinition of equality in a very 'Animal Farm' kind of way: All genders being equal, but some much more equal than others."

Meph, you've been on FWR long enough to know that radical feminism doesn't mean 'some genders more equal than others', or, to translate from the Orwellian, 'women better than men'.

honeylulu, I haven't been back on the thread, but I reacted to your comment on a case not 'as a feminist' but exactly as I would to any case linked on an AIBU (as that thread was), Chat or In the News thread - I went to read about the original myself and posted follow up questions and thoughts.

In what way could I have done that which wouldn't have been construed by you as 'jumping on you'?

I think fat acceptance is causing a rift between feminists in a lot of online debate.

Recently, it has seemed to me that unless you are part of the fat acceptance movement, you are not considered to be a 'real' feminist because by not finding morbid obesity gorgeous and inspiring, you are a 'fat shamer' and therefore not feminist enough.

This has certainly been my experience in online discussions, anyway. Most women I meet online tend to be quietly but staunchly supportive of feminism.

Does "extreme feminism" involve reading Andrea Dworkin while slalom skiing down the Matterhorn with your burning bra trailing behind you?

A feminist would not complain about having a door held open for them.

You speak for all feminists? You know every conversation that has taken place?

Why do people on these threads say 'that never happened' when someone mentions certain replies they have got from feminists?

Because it's easier

Limited

Martin Luther and Ghandi Simply belived in equality. As do most rational people.

Thats the essence of feminism.

What pisses me off are the slightly hectoring and bullying types who join causes and proceed to tell everyone else how they should live their lives.

Surely you know a few?

Not an odd inference at all theycall - simply a response to the suggestion upthread that equal rights for all (regardless of sex, colour, sexual orientation) as opposed to feminism is something to be strived for. Sign me up for that.

cleaty
Julie Bindels' comment about putting men in camps, was a joke.

It's hard to separate the jokes from the other nonsensical, off the wall points which I think are supposed to be serious.

I do comeonsummer1. I ignore them. Maybe people ignore me. It's a free country. Mostly.

So no one should make a joke in case it's misunderstood fasicle?

I thought that was the kind of thing stony-faced extreme feminists said.

Meph, you've been on FWR long enough to know that radical feminism doesn't mean 'some genders more equal than others', or, to translate from the Orwellian, 'women better than men'.

I'm sad to say that my views on this point were created by the FWR boards, which taught me to distinguish between the radicals and the egalitarian feminists. Previously I thought all feminists held these views, which were mendaciously concealed behind the language of justice - I was glad to be educated and learn that such perspectives belonged to a minority.

To clarify: I do not believe that the 'new equality' that radical feminists seek to create would be anything of the sort, and I do not believe that they are entirely honest in the opinions they express. I believe that hiding sexist opinions behind 'jokes' or 'banter' doesn't make them less sexist, or generate a positive environment for the ongoing and necessary pursuit of gender equality. This is true of male comedians and it is even more true of those who claim to be activists. Saying they are just jokes within the feminist community would only be acceptable if sexist jokes between a group of men outside earshot of a women were also acceptable; Are they?

A label has as much power and negativity as you give it, why should being a feminist be seen as a negative thing? Believing in a cause is not the same as being defined by a cause. I'm not ashamed to say I believe that women deserve equal rights and better protection from cuts to services which only affect us. I'm not responsible for people who use the name to project stereotypes or push offensive agendas.

There are people out there who actually think all sex or 'PIV' is rape? Really?

So you ignore them precisely because you find them a pain in the arse.

Which is what I posted. So why the mention of Ghandi/Martin Luther?

WaitrosePigeon - That's hardly surprising, there are also people who believe the earth is flat, that it's only 6 thousand years old and that dinosaurs are fake.

I agree with that Sea

Believing in a cause is not the same as being defined by it.

This ^

WaitrosePigeon Frankly I thought it was an actual joke from feminists to mock the people afraid of feminism, like in Scream Queens.

Maybe not?

I hate the word 'identify' used in this way.

I AM a feminist. A hectoring, opinionated one at that.

This is the thread honeylulu was referring to where she was shocked by the levels of aggression and vitriol, and where everything she said was jumped on. Her contributions are between 23 Feb at 18.33, and 24 Feb at 08.19. I am pretty sure she didn't post at any other time, but I could be wrong.

I know I am doing the ultimate thread about a thread thing. But I am getting really pissed off with the feminist bashing. No more Ms Nice Woman!