to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists?

[parklyfe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

''When split out by gender, women were more likely to identify as feminist, with nine per cent using the label compared to four per cent of men.''

[DrSeussRevived]

The author talks about PIV as practiced by "plenty of men (Not All Men)".

So there you go, not a sweeping generalisation. You are really reaching now, and that's not to mention your comments about the troll.

I get that you don't want to call yourself a feminist and I'm frankly meh on that point. Since you are so anti the term feminist, though, I hardly think you are trying to helpfully point out where we might tweak the message, so much as getting your kicks, as ever, from misrepresenting other posters and writers.

Time for bed, methinks. Life is too short for this shit.

[BertrandRussell]

"So what if the person was a troll? On the face of that thread and that question it was a reasonable question."

Oh, bollocks. You were on the thread. The poster concerned was on the thread- and had posts deleted. Face it. You've been caught out.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Feminism seems to have an image problem. That is not my problem. I'm not the person starting any of these threads. I've explained on this and other threads what I find off - putting. Others have explained.

I am a woman. I have opinions on issues that affect women. I fail to see why my opinions need to be validated by calling myself a feminist.

So what if the person was a troll? On the face of that thread and that question it was a reasonable question.

As for the explanation that the PIV poster wasn't talking about all women - I disagree. It was a sweeping generalisation. How the hell does she know about what happens in other women's bedrooms?

If I say a particular experience has not been my experience inevitably I will be accused of denying other women's experience. This despite the fact I was pretty much accused of lying when I said I had never been sexually assaulted - so denying experiences works both ways.

Yet the post about PIV attributing views to all women is fine. It's not only the example.

[BertrandRussell]

"It is a good example of how people make "feminists" seem unreasonable without telling the whole story."
Why on earth would Lass do that? It just baffles me.

[DrSeussRevived]

And again, lass, you've quoted selectively:

"And when you compare to the sort of 'mount and thrust' PIV practiced by plenty of men (NAM, and all that), the alternatives are much more pleasurable for women to boot"

The author is clearly comparing to a particular type of PIV.

[DrSeussRevived]

"the alternatives are much more pleasurable for women to boot"

Sometimes, people write "women" when they mean "most women" - as I wrote above, it's been a "thing" in Cosmo etc for years so don't really get the objection here. It's not dogmatic writing, though it may not be 100% precise.

Anyway, we've had this discussion 100 times and will no doubt have it 100 more.

[BertrandRussell]

Lass- did you check out the history of the poster who got the rather terse response on the Jean Urquhart thread?

[BeyondBootcampsAgain]

LassFeminism :)

[Lweji]

Maybe you should start your own current of feminism. :)

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Any way I have enjoyed this discussion so thank you, and Bert and DrSuess I must go and do something else.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Actually, it is relevant. I may have said this before but it seems to me there is no form of feminist theory which suits me.

It''s accepted people can say they don't align to any political party as none suits.

I will pick and mix bits which I agree with but I don't think It'd be welcome at (nor want to attend) RadFem conferences and the "pro-sex" stance of liberal feminism rules that out too.

[BeyondBootcampsAgain]

I'm pointing out that in my opinion, you dont have to agree with something 100% to "identify" (getting sick of typing that bloody word!) with it. You disagree, i know - no problemo. I'm not boss of the world! :)

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

That's for you to decide. So far as the Greens I find there are plenty of other reasons not to support them.

I'm not sure it's relevant anyway. The gist of the thread was why are so few women willing to describe themselves as feminists. I'm giving examples of what puts me off.

[BeyondBootcampsAgain]

I disagree massively with the greens gender policy.
I'm still green (should that be i identify as green?)

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I'm not certain if this is permitted but as examples of what is so alienating about feminism were requested, here's another.

I was looking at the Jean Urquhart thread today. Someone , not me asked

If I understand correctly Jean's proposals will mean prostituted women will no longer be criminalised?

The response given by an FWR regular was

Prostituted women aren't criminalised on the whole.
It might be better, if you're going to insist on being patronising and ridiculous, if you acquainted yourself with some facts.
Or you could just continues to make passive aggressive little posts so we can laugh at you

The question was not goody, patronising or ridiculous so why the aggressive response?

So far as the orgasm quote the alternatives are much more pleasurable for women to boot - not some women , or might be , but women; full stop. It's the feminist version of "behold here comes a man to explain"

The collective effect of such thinking is for me, no I don't want to be in your feminist club. On some issues I am a feminist ally.

[BeyondBootcampsAgain]

[BeyondBootcampsAgain]

Lass cant be maggie, maggies a tad too dead.

[BertrandRussell]

I agree, DrSeuss. I don't understand the "It's not happening to me so it's not happening" thing. It makes me think of Margaret Thatcher.

[DrSeussRevived]

"While my female body is a continual source of shame and suffering for me, "

The writer is talking about her own experience of her own body; she isn't generalising to others.

I don't feel ashamed of my body, but fat shaming, period shaming, boob shaming in puberty (whether too much or too little), age shaming (see: Mary Beard) aren't too hard to exemplify.

[BertrandRussell]

I know you are. What I am trying to understand is why people think that disagreeing with something a feminist says means you aren't/can't be a feminist. Or, in many cases it seems, means you have to stop being a feminist. Lots of people say "I was a feminist, then someone on here said something disobliging and now I'm not any more."

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Lots of feminists are passionately in favour of the legalization of prostitution. I am passionately opposed to it. I don't think that makes me not a feminist.

And , assuming you read my posts, (other than picking apart the ones you disagree with )you will know I am passionately opposed to it as well. There is a current FWR thread on this to which I am contributing. Why that makes me a feminist as opposed to human being attempting to stand by a set of values, I don't know.

My husband feels as strongly as I do yet the concensus on FWR is generally a man can be a feminist ally but not a feminist (NAFALT obviously)

[BertrandRussell]

Lots of feminists use the expression "cis-women" I don't. I don't think that makes me not a feminist.

[BertrandRussell]

Some women do feel that their bodies are a source of shame. Because, you know, socialization.

Why do you have to agree with everything every feminist has said, ever, in order to be a feminist?

Lots of feminists are passionately in favour of the legalization of prostitution. I am passionately opposed to it. I don't think that makes me not a feminist.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

What about "the continual source of shame " quotes?

As I said, some -one asked for examples of what is so alienating about identifying as a feminist. I have given you some- there are plenty more.