to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists?

[parklyfe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

''When split out by gender, women were more likely to identify as feminist, with nine per cent using the label compared to four per cent of men.''

I'm sure I saw on one feminism thread that feminism isn't all about equality between the sexes, someone said 'it's more nuanced than that.' I can't remember what the nuance was though.
The name is misleading, it should be called 'equalism' is it is just about equality.

Excellent point bumbley

Thing is, you can't really be 'shouted down' on MN. You can have a lot of people disagree with you, or you can lose an argument, or you can be asked a question you can't answer and have to go away and think about it etc... but we all have the same right to 'speak'.

So maybe you weren't talking about MN? Or maybe you mean something different from what I do when you say 'shouted down'? It's still a valid question to ask.

OK bumbley - allow me to expand the definition (apologies Caitlin) - not got a vagina of your own but think that women should be 100% in charge of what happens to theirs? Congratulations - you're a feminist!

If you believe women and men are equal then you ARE a feminist. That is it.

It does depend on who was asked and sample sizes, etc.

However I think most people don't want a label or don't think they are feminists because of the extremist ones who say you have to be or think x or y or z. For example I had one of those extremist type feminists tell me I was basically a total brainwashed idiot, too oppressed by patriarchal demands on women, to be a free woman - all because I chose to stay at home with the children. To me its the best "job" I could ever have. It doesn't mean I've done it for some man or because I'm brainwashed by patriarchal demands - I did it for me, because I want to be at home with my children everyday. A true feminist would value a woman being able to freely choose whether she was a SAHP, WAHP or WOHP. and that a man should freely be able to make that same choice. They are all valid choices.

I think its probably more like 99% when you look at the core issues - equal pay for equal job, equal opportunity to participate in everything from education, to voting, to sports; equal job opportunity, freedom to choose what we want to do with our lives, etc

But I'm sure that is a particularly good analogy from a language point of view.

Either you are a dermatologist or your not, there's a fairly widespread definition and view of what one is.

In a very simplistic way you can define feminism as a wanting equal rights for women but if the majority of people aren't using the term in that way, which the survey suggests they aren't, then it's all a bit academic.

Only 7% of Britons defining themselves as feminist is only really an issue if we're all using the same definition. Then it looks quite bad. I'd be more concerned about the 1/3 of the population that don't support gender equality.

I'm not sure telling people what the can and can't or should and shouldn't identify as will help at all.

Or to paraphrase Caitlin Moran - got a vagina? Want to be in charge of it? Congraulations! You're a feminist!

Does that apply if you choose to show the vagina you're in charge of to a group of men in a strip club? Because from what I've read on the feminist boards that means you're colluding with the patriarchy, supporting the continued objectification of women and don't deserve to call yourself a feminist (I paraphrase, obviously)

I'm sure I saw on one feminism thread that feminism isn't all about equality between the sexes, someone said 'it's more nuanced than that.'

The nuance is that equality within the structures that presently exist isn't that good, so all of society must be radically reconstructed with new definitions for people to be equal.

From what I have seen of the people who support this view (which I believe to be the 'radical feminist' position) it would be a redefinition of equality in a very 'Animal Farm' kind of way: All genders being equal, but some much more equal than others.

feminism needs to change its name if it all about equality because the name doesnt suggest equality

No Finally - apparently being a feminist isn't about making personal choices, it's about making choices for the good of all women. I got that one wrong too.

Can you provide an example of that SirChenjin

There was a lot if aggression and vitriol on it though.

No there wasn't honeylulu. If you want to make a TAAT I think it's only fair to give the full picture.

You made a statement about about an industrial tribunal involving a female soldier that seemed to give her an unfair advantage over men because of her sex. Your previous posts gave it the added authority that you are a solicitor.

Another poster calmly explained (with one of those pesky time-consuming links) why you were mistaken.

You then conceded that the case was a little more nuanced than you had originally thought and said that your area of expertise wasn't employment law.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

Where is the "more equal than others" coming from? Do you mean when two groups rights clash like women in Calogne and refugees or women and transwomen?

feminism needs to change its name if it all about equality because the name doesnt suggest equality

Agreed. But also what is "equality"? I'm sure there will be many different definitions in the context of the two sexes (not 'genders' FFS!)

To my mind equality means equality of opportunity.

I am happy to declare that I am NOT a feminist.

But Lotta, many feminists would argue strongly that there's a lot more to feminism than Caitlin Moran's definition.

So someone might say - 'I want to be in charge of my vagina but I don't believe women should work when they have children.'

They would, perhaps correctly, be told their view was oppositional to the feminist one.

It's just not straightforward.

Sallying a feminist will be along any minute to tell you that you are a feminist, sod your own feelings.

:)

Feminism is about equal rights
If you believe women and men are equal then you ARE a feminist. That is it.

Then why the "femin" prefix? If we like men and women being equal then we should say femimasculist or something, surely?

Someone has already been criticised for calling them self a equalitist here. It is such cticism of others who fundamentaly believe the same as yourself (i.e. in the equality od sexes) that puts people off feminism.

I STILL don't know what the problem is with the term equalitist!

'Many feminists irritate me. "Oh he held the door open for me, he's such a pig. Clearly he's a chauvinist pig"'

Yeah. No feminist has ever said anything like that ever.

But thanks for including an actual example of why 'feminist' irritate you. The very notion of providing examples to add weight to what you say has upset some people terribly on this thread so far

Yep and no doubt at some point this thread will be covered in a shit ton of links, to massive research findings that everyone is expected to go away and read, rather than stay on the thread.

That is often the way it goes....

Where is the "more equal than others" coming from? Do you mean when two groups rights clash like women in Calogne and refugees or women and transwomen?

It was a point that equality could be redefined until it was no longer equality at all.