is this way too much for an 8 year old??

[hugsarealwaysneededhere1]

Son is learning guitar and vilion at school with some practise (not enough I'm sure) at home.
He goes to Cubs once a week
Fencing once a week.
Life Guarding once a week

At the weekend he has a swimming lesson and tennis.

He loves guitar, cubs and fencing. He is a good swimmer but now needs to stop lessons and either join the squad (train 3 times a week) or just swim once a week as part of a fun junior team. He would rather just play than swim seriously.

It all feels quite a lot! With homework too.......or is this just the norm??

Twinkel has conveniently ignored how she measures someone else's pleasure....

Twinkel YOU may derive more pleasure from being able to play harder pieces, but you cannot say with any certainty that your pleasure is greater than someone else's, regardless of their ability.

DS7 learns the drums at school. After school he does tennis, hockey, baking and swimming - so he has something 4 days out of 5. At the weekends he does football on Sat and rugby on Sun. It's all of his own back. I don't make him do any of it. I don't make him practise the drums. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. His teacher doesn't seem to care and DS enjoys the lessons.

I don't think it's too much until we factor socialising in; we've had weekends where he's been invited for two sleepovers and he's shattered come Sunday evening. Too shattered to do school homework. So we've had to lay down an 'only one sleepover per weekend' rule.

Twinkel has conveniently ignored how she measures someone else's pleasure....

Made me question if I had wondered into another thread by accident!

god...wandered even!

elegant

So why do you force him to play?
Are you not afraid he is resentful and carry this through life.
It seems such a shame to pressure a child into something they don't want to do.
It's not a compulsory subject so not like he'll be left behind academically or anything.
Would you not like him to enjoy music as an adult rather than hating it as he was forced into as a child?

Twinklestein unfortunately ds was put off for life around the age of six by having to wait at cold bus stops to go to a piano teacher who underestimated him.

I will confess to having eyed up guitar lessons but the person who was the best bet as a tutor has just lost their wife. I am thinking about it.

He was thrilled when the school forced us to by recorders for the kids and ds got a few terms of that. He didn't practice that at all.

I do worry about it a lot. However not only do I have no idea about instruments and what to buy/rent etc let alone find a tutor in an area that isn't very prosperous (sorry about stereotype) but I suspect ds actually quite likes the piano but the bloody minded little darling won't admit it.

I'm outclassed in the battle of wills.

NewLife4Me - he loves classical music, often goes to sleep with Einaudi on, puts Mozart on as a background if he is on the computer, etc.

When a 9 year old finds everything easy, they are fucked when at 14 they suddenly find something a challenge.

I am not exaggerating about him finding everything easy. He's not a genius like you see in the gifted and talented threads, but the stuff he does at school is something he can do half asleep.

He is better than me at Maths.

I nearly stopped just here. As this really sums up your bias. I get that you have had many years of long personal experience of playing musical instruments. Are you also an expert in art, creating and curating to be able to talk on behalf of the art sector as a whole? Once again, satisfying to who's criteria...as it appears to be yours only. I quite enjoy painting things that don't look like things they're meant to. Doesn't mean that I can't paint realistically. My choice, and not everyone's cup of tea, granted

I'm not discussing fine art in general merely the simple act of drawing a man. If you try and draw a realistic picture of a man and it comes out looking nothing like, it's frustrating. If you're painting a cubist or abstract man that's another issue entirely.

So if you try and play the Mendelssohn violin concerto and its sounds like a cat being skinned, it's just not that fun.

I agree a lot of chamber music is very beautiful. But to a 12 year old that is playing pieces that are not stretching, or appeal to their individual taste, who has given up their lunch to attend, who is not inspired by their orchestral teacher etc, who have other children of differing standards messing about, then it may appear as a chore. I'm bothering because I am not delusional to the fact that not everything is going to be to the liking of a young child, and she needs to accept the ups and downs of an activity if she wants to improve her general musicianship

So why is she doing music in school when it's clearly shit? She's not going to 'improve her musicianship' in that context, don't kid yourself.

When do people say that the physical activities are worth it, even though the child is dead against it?

I think there is a 'right' instrument for most children, it's just about them having the opportunity to try them out. If it's the right one, they'll want to play it, and enjoy getting better. My DD has loved her flute since her first lesson. Once she got better at it, we bought her her own 'proper' one rather than using the school one. It made a huge difference to how much she practiced as it sounds so much better.

Twinklestein, I know she would benefit from external lessons, but she needs to give something else up first . I would also worry that they would be very grade - driven. Playing in orchestra/2 other bands + associated practice gives her a range of classical/modern/traditional.

Keeptrudging how do you find the right instrument? No music in school, or rather, no musical instrument lessons.

I don't know grey I think if it's still a daily battle after 3 years - there's a problem. Whether it's the teacher, whether piano doesn't suit him, or he's just being bloody-minded, I've no idea. But it shouldn't be this hard, or rather it shouldn't he hard in that way.

It's certainly worth trying a different instrument to see if he gets on better. If he has the same reaction to that, at least you've learnt something. I'd be inclined to give the guitar a try.

elegantlygrey & trudging if you PM me with your rough area I'll see if I can find some good non-grade driven teachers.

I'm not discussing fine art in general merely the simple act of drawing a man. If you try and draw a realistic picture of a man and it comes out looking nothing like, it's frustrating. If you're painting a cubist or abstract man that's another issue entirely

Twinkle, unless I have missed it, at no point did the poster (in this case, Bertand) comment on the quality of their children's playing, just the level attained and the amount practised Sometimes mine wouldn't play for a week-sometimes they would play for a couple of hours. From this, you have concluded that this has inhibited their success, even though the children are still playing and enjoying their instruments. How have you come to this conclusion?

So if you try and play the Mendelssohn violin concerto and its sounds like a cat being skinned, it's just not that fun

Obviously. No one is disagreeing wholeheartedly that no practise is advocated. The norm is regularity. This is easier to achieve at younger years than senior, but still preferable in the usual learning an instrument model. And those that really excel have more than likely put in the hours to play a Mendelssohn at a competent level.

However, it should not negate those children that may just learn for pleasure, and that pleasure is not measured by the complexity of the piece, or by a grade level alone.

Practise alone/good attitude does not always equal high quality playing...but helps.

Good teaching does not alone equal high quality playing...but helps.

Natural ability and musicality alone does not equal high quality playing....but helps.

Having all 3 is optimum. But sometimes they fail or succeed based on less. And that criteria is subjective and dependent on the child, circumstances and on other stuff they may have going on.

Maybe different where you are, I'm in Scotland and in our area, all children are entitled to a year's free instrument tuition. What happens is every so often the instrument tutors send out letters (usually from P4 upwards) offering the chance to try out for e.g. brass/woodwind/strings. Children go and have a little try of instruments, to see how they get on with them, if they're keen/it's a good match they do lessons.

DD was a natural flute player, she's got a real 'flute mouth', but struggled to get anywhere with clarinet and oboe (she tried out for all 3 on the same day). DS was born drumming , he did saxophone too but found the finger dexterity needed was too much (dyspraxia).

If you don't have access to real instruments for him to try, it might be worth looking at an 'instruments of the orchestra' site and letting him explore what sounds the different ones make/how they are played. See what kind of instrument makes his eyes light up?

OMG how had I never heard of her before, what a voice . But she persevered and did play Carnegie Hall even if it was days before she died. I was a little tearful. Also in awe that someone who could be considered a prodigy at the piano could ever, EVER be that terrible and singing. Thankfully youtube also provided a link to Joan Sutherland so I could re set my ears before emerging into the real world. I also discovered I can hit top E flat. Dogs are cowering. Thank you for a very interesting 10 mins. I will persevere with the piano practice .

So why is she doing music in school when it's clearly shit? She's not going to 'improve her musicianship' in that context, don't kid yourself

Because chamber orchestra as an example, only forms one part of the contribution. It is also supplemented by external orchestral exposure that is more stretching and rewarding for her. In addition to ensembles, symphony orchestra etc that are taught by different teachers, on balance, she needs to suck up the negative bits.

I wouldn't pull her out of school either just because her geography teacher was shit, but all others good. Life is just not like that.

Keeptrudging We're in England, he may get something similar later on, or it may have already happened with compulsory recorder. I shall definitely look up the sites.

I find it so hard. I have massive battles with him over piano practice, you would not believe them.

Just before Christmas he was in a shopping centre where a piano was there for kids to plink on. He sat down, settled himself and launched into the first few bars of Ode to Joy. It wasn't particularly accurate, but there was a lot of verve and swagger. He loved the attention (tbh I loved that he had so much fun). The next day when I suggested piano practice it was like I had suggested he remove his own kidney.

We've had a rough few years. I suppose now I need to start working on the physical activity. He plays out with a football a lot, but in the past suggestions of him joining a local team have been very badly received.

I should add - DH never did any extra curricular stuff and had a much better childhood than I did though I did quite a bit.

Why is there this obsession with learning an instrument? If they want to do it then they'll practice. If not, let them give it up! Physical activity more important imo.

I have children of 7 and 8 and they've also tried lots of activities. I think this is an ideal age for them to "try out" different hobbies but I would expect some of them to be dropped through lack of time/interest.

My eight year old currently does judo twice a week, gymnastics, rugby and brownies. The seven year old is only doing judo at the moment (three times a week) as he has given up on every club so far apart from judo. So far he's tried gymnastics, rugby, football, athletics and Beavers.

Mine have both been asking about learning musical instruments but I'm aware that I don't want to overload them to the point where they don't get any down time.

Patron I would love to get him to do physical activities. The only ones that do not involve multiple bus journeys have been rejected firmly and multiple bus journeys have also been rejected.

As previously posted, DH did no extra curricular stuff and had a much better childhood than I did. I am starting to wonder if I should just cave.

I am under no illusions. He will drop the piano as soon as he can

elegantlygrey1, have you asked him outright if her wants to give it up? or is this your assumption? I know he's only 9, but are you just being the butt of his frustration because this doesn't come easily to him like other things?

If he says yes, he wants to give it up, I'd call his bluff and drop it. You may not get the begging I got at 9 for her to renege but this may be a battle that is not worth pursuing?

he...sorry. I've lost my glasses today!

ealingwestmum On Monday night ds said very seriously to us both, after being forced to practice, that he felt he was being forced to do something he didn't want to do. DH and I both nodded and told him that he was and it was going to continue for the forseeable future.

He has clearly stated he doesn't want to do it. He got out of it with his first tutor who by the end hadn't a clue how to manage him (and he is a sweetie, honest, great in school) and it took me some time to find a different tutor. Ds got his own way then and is planning for me to crack first. He is right, I will crack first. I am just trying to hold on as long as possible.

I found letting them choose was the best way to go.
Yes, encouraging with all sorts of different activities is important, but if they aren't sporty what's the point in making them join a team? If they don't want to practice music they don't want to do it, so find something else.
We have 2 ds who weren't interested in playing music at all, rather than push we let them choose their own activities which for both of them was the local hockey team. They both ended up very good and played for county at senior and adult level.
Dd on the other hand likes P.E but has no time for sports, she just has a run when she can to blow off cobwebs. She made her choice that didn't include sports clubs. She would rather practice her instruments for 4 hours a day, they are all different.
There aren't enough hours in the day to do everything and it's good to make children choose their own interests at a young age.