to wonder if people would admit to voting "leave" in the EU Referendum?

[evilcherub]

Apparently there is a lot of inconsistency in answers when pollsters phone people and ask for their decision on Brexit compared to answers given online (respondents are more likely to say they will vote to "remain" on the phone but in online polls say they will vote to "leave"). I wonder if people admitting that they are going to vote "leave" is seen as taboo in the same way that nobody apparently voted for the Tories in the GE . If you are intending to vote "leave" would you admit it to friends and family (especially if you think they are more likely to vote "remain") or are you afraid of being called a Little Englander?

Of course not, Mouse. It's just that a lot of people seem to think that the EU is only a good thing if we get back more than we put in. Mathematically it isn't possible for that to be the case for all member states. Unless you start factoring in things less quantifiable in terms of hard cash, like economic growth across the board, workers' rights, future international trade and I'm sure there are other things too.

Having said all of the above, there is a part of me that would like to see Brexit. I know that's weird, but what I would really like is for the EU to implode and fall apart, so that we can start over from the wreckage and this time do it properly. I couldn't tell you what 'properly' looked like, I'm not a politician, but it would start with going back to the bare bones without actually abandoning hard won things like holiday rights for part time workers. It's a complicated matter. I'm actually glad to see that this thread is remarkably polite and without mud slinging.

DH is a French national and he wishes he could vote on this - he would definitely vote "Leave" and is extremely vocal about why the UK should seize the opportunity whilst it can.

My BIL is too and he says the same.

I want leave. And not come back.

To the wives of the French 'Leave' advocators, could you explain their reasoning?

Am I correct in thinking that Britain is the only EU member state who does not use the Euro?

No, there are 28 EU members and only 19 use the euro.

I think Denmark don't use the Euro.

I really hope no-one is trying to characterise this issue as one where the Nice People are 'obviously' for Remain. It doesn't sound like anyone on this thread sees it like that, but I did have an interesting FB debate recently with a group of London-centric acquaintances who all seemed to take it for granted that Remain was the virtuous stance.

The US has made it pretty clear that Brexit will mean the end of the special relationship.

Who the hell cares?

It takes two individuals - a president and a prime minister - Reagan and Thatcher, Blair and Bush ... and the special relationship will be back on, or off as the case may be. Cameron and Obama don't have quite the same chemistry but that can and probably will change in a heartbeat.

And for the poster whose argument for staying in is 'our presence on the world stage is so much stronger in the EU than out'. Again, who the hell cares? The EU time and time again has shown itself to be weak and ineffectual. After the Paris atrocities it was the French who went unilaterally and made their response and when any decisive action is made about anything it is by individual nation states. Trying to force countries together into some faux political union doesn't change that.

Our world power days went with the end of Empire so let's not kid ourselves. We've done our bit - let someone else take up the slack for a change and let's start looking after our own.

Do I want an unelected bureaucrat representing me on the world stage? No I don't. I want my democratically elected Prime Minister even if I hate his guts. If he's an idiot - he's my idiot, a home grown idiot ... not a Belgian Marxist, an Italian Maoist or a German Communist.

What we are is a very prosperous island of very innovative and courageous people and if we are the first to tell the EUSSR 'enough' then I will never be more proud of the island I was born on and the people who live on it.

OUT!

Oh - thanks for clarifying.

Another point that Ireland is considering, is what the fuck they'll do in the event of Brexit.

45% of our trade is with Britain apparently.

Britain is basically an annoying big brother to Ireland, their little sister. But, much as we detest our big brother, he has always got our back.

The chat on FB that I was engaged in yesterday was in relation to how Brexit would impact on Ireland. Economist (David McWilliams - Prof of Economics, Trinity College Dublin) is writing an article for the Sunday Business Post where he feels that contrary to mainstream belief, BREXIT might actually be beneficial to Ireland. The fucker didn't comment (guess I'll have to buy the newspaper tomorrow), but the discussion was lively. He was guaging public opinion I suppose. I respect him incidentally. He pretty much predicted Ireland's collapse, but was ignored. Interested to read his take on it.

A lot of the discussion focussed on direct foreign investment (Ireland is home to the HQ of a lot of multinationals - Facebook/Google etc.). A lot of the thought was around whether Ireland, in the event of Brexit, being the only native English speakers in Europe, might be even more lucrative for US multinationals.

Anyway - that's neither here nor there for Britons. Just thought I'd stick me oar in anyway.

Having said all of the above, there is a part of me that would like to see Brexit. I know that's weird, but what I would really like is for the EU to implode and fall apart, so that we can start over from the wreckage and this time do it properly.

^This.

Although on 2nd thoughts that's unlikely to be good for the economy in the short term either unless it's a carefully managed implosion.

To the wives of the French 'Leave' advocators, could you explain their reasoning?

It's my BIL, but I am seeing him tomorrow so will ask.

HaveIGotAClue I always thought a good argument for staying in was that US companies would be likely to base their EU headquarters in the UK or Ireland. If the UK leave the EU I think a lot of those companies could move their operations to Ireland.
That's just me musing!

I don't think it's taboo for people to say that they're voting to leave.

Personally, though, I will be voting to stay. I think many in the "out" campaign are naively optimistic about the trade deals that they think we could negotiate if we went it alone. If Britain leaves, the rest of the EU will clearly need to make life difficult for us so that other member states don't follow suit.

I also think it's crazy to compromise our security in this uncertain world by going it alone.

And I value the protections that EU membership has delivered in terms of human rights, workers' rights and so on. Yes, of course we could still have those rights if we left the EU, but with politicians like Osborne and Cameron in power (and the opposition in total disarray) I don't feel confident that a British government would necessarily protect those rights of it wasn't forced to do so.

with politicians like Osborne and Cameron in power (and the opposition in total disarray) I don't feel confident that a British government would necessarily protect those rights of it wasn't forced to do so.

Don't vote for them then.

I didn't, Vertigo, but sadly others did.

DrDreReturns I could see it happen alright. Now - if only you could put a roof over it, Ireland would be a grand little country lol.

I'm voting to leave, and I feel no shame about it.

However, I work in London, and among my left-wing colleagues there's definitely an attitude that people who want to leave "Europe" are been small-minded/bigoted. I don't care what they think.

I do however get irritated when some of them they say they'll be voting to stay in "Europe" because they feel European and want to be able to go to Germany if they want. The vote is about the EU, not Europe. It's not like the UK would suddenly float across the ocean if the country voted to leave!

A lot of the thought was around whether Ireland, in the event of Brexit, being the only native English speakers in Europe, might be even more lucrative for US multinationals.

I'm sure that Ireland would do very well out of this indeed. A long time ago, I worked overseas in a role supporting foreign direct investment to the UK. Undoubtedly, one of the biggest attractions for companies investing in the UK was that we offered an English-speaking gateway to the rest of the EU. If we were no longer an option, Ireland (and perhaps later an independent Scotland) would almost certainly benefit.

Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Gove and Chris Grayling all want to leave. That tells me all I need to know.

I know several people who will be voting to leave, and they are not shy about it at all. They're actually really fucking annoyingly vocal about it

I don't know whether we should stay or leave. But I don't see any shame in voting either way. Perhaps it is assumed that people voting to leave are doing so because of immigration only and therefore racist/xenophobic etc.

In the general election, few admitted to voting conservative, but they won easily. Even fewer admitted to voting ukip and even though it didn't translate to seats, they got several million votes. Admitting you vote Tory opens you up to abuse (you must hate the poor etc) so that's why people don't admit it.

Brokenbiscuit you've just summarised why I think we should stay in. Leaving will imo really badly affect inward investment.

The fact that Ireland is allowed in the EU when they deny women abortion shows what a farce it all is - how is that not against women's human rights when we are forced to give prisoners votes under the same legislation?

Isn't the human rights stuff (the council of europe) a separate entity to the EU?

I'd be interested to see what voter turnout will be.

Personally I feel that this is even bigger than a general election, but suspect turnout will be lower.