to wonder if people would admit to voting "leave" in the EU Referendum?

[evilcherub]

Apparently there is a lot of inconsistency in answers when pollsters phone people and ask for their decision on Brexit compared to answers given online (respondents are more likely to say they will vote to "remain" on the phone but in online polls say they will vote to "leave"). I wonder if people admitting that they are going to vote "leave" is seen as taboo in the same way that nobody apparently voted for the Tories in the GE . If you are intending to vote "leave" would you admit it to friends and family (especially if you think they are more likely to vote "remain") or are you afraid of being called a Little Englander?

The US has made it pretty clear that Brexit will mean the end of the special relationship.

Tbf they say that over a lot of things.

Not sure I still want it if Trump wins anyway tbh.

Who wants to be in a special relationship with USA or a special member of EU? You just get dragged into wars and nonsense along the way.

DontCare that is a bloody good point about Trump. My DH is American - he has said that if Trump wins the presidency, he would happily contribute to a fund for a good assassin...

ClashCityRocker

What it states is that Britain pays £340 PER HOUSEHOLD per year to the EU.

In return it receives the sum total of £3,000 IN TOTAL.

That's how I've interpreted it anyway!

Smaller economies, like Ireland's, RECEIVE money from the EU. The bigger economies, like Britain, PAY IN money to the EU.

Voting to leave and not ashamed of it - I'm in London and have come across the same attitudes as the OP, but I'm happy to share my opinions in person and counter the stereotype that we're all reactionary racists.

I am working-class, though, and I think that's a big part of the narrative for certain middle-class 'stay' voters - that we're all ignorant, read the tabloids and adopt whatever rhetoric we're fed wholesale. The idea that someone might have thought about the issue and reached a different conclusion to them (instead of just being stupid and easily led) seems to be a difficult one for some people I know offline.

I haven't participated in online debates, so can't comment on whether the same class narrative applies there.

I think there is a reluctance among people to say they are going to vote to leave.

Already on the boards today there has been suggestions that those wanting to leave " need educating" or are racist or ukip supporters and such like.

I think it's similar to the Scotland referendum when people were afraid to say publicly that they were voting to stay. That's why the polls were out I think.

I'm going to vote leave. I've thought we should be out for more than 10 years. My issues are the finances- cannot understand why it's not more of a scandal that the accounts haven't been signed off by the auditors.

I also think there's too much bureaucracy to the EU and it is profoundly Undemocratic. Just look at Greece being overruled by the EU when their citizens voted for an end to austerity.

Ah....well that's a pretty shit argument for staying in then...I had read it as we get 3k back per person.

Sofiria I agree a class element is at work with the stereotyping.

It's a really interesting question- especially since the polls got it so wrong at the general election. We're not sure why they got it wrong tho are we? Was it stigma- or impulsiveness or ...?

I'll vote to stay. I haven't heard anything the leave side have offered that would convince me otherwise.
I think the eu is pretty crap but it's our crap (new slogan?!) I think we're far stronger in than out.

Interesting news item on BBc2 now.

Clashcityrocker - the cost implication of leaving the EU is unclear, since, as someone mentioned above, excise duties and trading tariffs will now have to be paid to trade with EU member states.

Helmet I know what you mean! I used to feel it wasn't bad enough to leave and it was "our" slightly crap club. I think it's a close call in a lot of ways.

At the moment I am totally undecided. I believe I'm in a similar boat as many people so is it just a case of people vascilating.

DH is a French national and he wishes he could vote on this - he would definitely vote "Leave" and is extremely vocal about why the UK should seize the opportunity whilst it can.

No, the stronger in lot seem to think it's 3k per household:

www.strongerin.co.uk/why#ZkTYLP3qMKZImfBO

Although obviously not an unbiased source and I'm sure the other side will have something saying the opposite.

Ah yes, that's probably where they're getting the figure from - so pretty unquantifiable I guess.

Sofiria absolutely right with the assumption about working class OUT voters.

It would be interesting to look at which groups have benefited from being in and which have lost. And which groupps may benefit / lose in the next ten years. Unscientific but:

old v young, immigrant v born here, Big business v Small business, Rural v urban, men v women, working class v Middle class, home owners v renters

People will not always vote in their own self-interest but it will be a huge factor.

This would be an interesting discussion - I would really like to know how people feel about this.

Clash it won't be £3k for the whole of the UK. It really won't.

I also don't actually have a problem with some countries paying in more than they get back. Yes, the Euro was very badly mishandled - countries like Greece and Spain should not have been allowed to join. However, if you look at the state of Greece and Spain when they joined compared to where they are now, they have developed their economies. As has the rest of Europe. The idea is that the stronger economies drag the weaker ones upwards. That idea failed with the Euro, because the weaker economies were not ready to join, but let's be absolutely fair - the banking crisis was not Greece's fault, or Spain's fault - it was the banks' fault. On a world-wide scale. The feeling I get is that the leave camp like to gloss over that part of it.

Mind you, I'm a leftie and I don't mind my taxes going to people who have it worse than I do. That's a choice we're all entitled to make.

I wouldn't dream of looking down on people who want to vote leave, by the way. It's democracy at work to have a referendum. I just wish everyone affected had a vote, i.e. people like me who have been here ages. I know people will say 'but you could have naturalised' and yes, I could. But it's a big ask to tell me to pay north of a grand for the privilege of voting for a bunch of out of touch politicians for whom I have zero respect...

It's a sinking ship. Get out now.

DH is a French national and he wishes he could vote on this - he would definitely vote "Leave" and is extremely vocal about why the UK should seize the opportunity whilst it can.

Oh yes European members of my family are also saying grab this chance, be free! Lumbering Juggernaut, cut free.

Its morphed into something totally different than it started out as and now we have this - direct quote:

Jean-Claude Juncker, who explained the introduction of the Euro like this: “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens.

If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.”

"That is not make-believe, that is an actual quote and it is a helpful one because it shows what the architects of the EU project actually think"

From Telegraph.

Does anyone really want their lives decided in such a way?

Leave ideas around and if no one notices, implement them?

Mind you, I'm a leftie and I don't mind my taxes going to people who have it worse than I do

^ but thats not a sole characteristic of being a lefty is it?

pointythings yeah I thought as much. It's very hard to cut through the bullshit (on both sides) and get a grasp of what's really going on.

Everyone I know is going to vote Leave. Even in casual conversations about the referendum with relative strangers (eg at a funeral last week) people freely admit to voting Leave. It isn't a taboo. There are many, many good and just reasons to vote Leave. And no-one I have spoken to seems remotely defensive about it.

Thanks to the poster who advised of the BBC2 coverage.

I'm going to register to vote, when I finish this post lol.

It's really only the beginning of the information overload, so I'm still undecided. I see myself remaining living in England. But, I feel a strong loyalty to Ireland. That fact will influence my vote no doubt.

Tbh - I were British born and bred, I probably would feel that exit was better. But, given that I'm Irish (southern), for Ireland, and the EU, Brexit could be detrimental. Britain has a knack for coming up trumps (no Donald J's included there thank you very much), and it is telling that the EU member states essentially gave Britain special privilege in order to get them to stay in. Telling as to how much they are actually needed.

That said, the EU has been very heavy handed with Ireland. The cost PER PERSON of Ireland bailing out the banks (i.e. assuring Irish government bonds when they became completely worthless) is in the region of EUR45,000 PER IRISH PERSON. It has come out that basically the banks across Europe would have collapsed, had Ireland not agreed to bail out the banks. That is hard to stomach and a very tough price to pay out, even given all that we have received.

I'm torn. Very torn. Still uninformed. Still undecided.