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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think that using financial penalties to punish people for not having money should be banned??

146 replies

Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 19:33

You know, banks who charge you more money when you don't have enough money, councils who fine people for sleeping rough, dvla fines for people who struggle to pay car tax and council tax fines for people who can't pay their council tax. Its completely mental.. Isn't it?

OP posts:
Maudofallhopefulness · 19/02/2016 19:34

Yes, totally agree.

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 19/02/2016 19:35

What penalties would you like to see instead then?

Original poster
Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 19:38

Why penalties at all? What's the purpose?

OP posts:
Katenka · 19/02/2016 19:41

So people just shouldn't have to pay their bills?

If they say they can't afford them?

AnthonyBlanche · 19/02/2016 19:43

Great idea Lanark - let's all stop paying our bills on the basis we can't afford them / don't get paid enough.

Thisisnotausername · 19/02/2016 19:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 19/02/2016 19:45

Lol how naive!!

because people should pay what they owe!?! You're suggesting paying bills should be optional?

SirChenjin · 19/02/2016 19:45

What would you replace them with?

If you can't afford to run a car, then you shouldn't have one. The rest I can see your point, but you can see where it could lead, can't you?

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/02/2016 19:45

Well, banks could, you know, just stop people going into overdraft. Councils could stop fining the homeless and start meeting their obligations to their residents. Poor people shouldn't have to pay Council Tax.

DVLA fines I agree with. Only if, where and when there is decent public transport. No one should need a car.

Costacoffeeplease · 19/02/2016 19:45

What would be better, prison? Hard labour? Or should there be no penalties so no-one has any incentive to pay up for anything?

lighteningirl · 19/02/2016 19:46

I love it I can stop paying for stuff just steal it, give up work and shrug my shoulders if I get called on it as those nasty meanies can't hold me accountable sign me up I've obviously been going about life all wrong.

Seriously I kind of see your point with the homeless, but if you can't afford car tax don't drive and we would all rather have other stuff than pay council tax but you know we all need to contribute to the society we live in.

AutumnLeavesArePretty · 19/02/2016 19:46

Because without penalties people would run riot, not pay for anything and civilisation would go out the window.

If they can't afford car tax, don't have a car. Council tax help is available so no excuse to not pay that and it should be a priority bill given what it covers.

Bank charges I think should be higher, you can't just take somebodies else's money and not face consequences.

Maybe instead of moaning about what they haven't got or how unfair life is they should channel the energy into doing something about their life and improving their lot.

donajimena · 19/02/2016 19:48

Maybe a way of collecting the money via attachments?
I had financial troubles in the past and I wanted to pay and I am now paying but I won't be straight for a long time due to penalties.
There will always be people who have no intention of paying and those who can't

edwinbear · 19/02/2016 19:50

If banks stopped allowing people to go over drawn there would be hundreds of DM stories about families stranded unable to fill their empty tanks with petrol or unable to buy food for their kids. I once had a chap stand in front of me in a branch verbally abusibg me because I wouldn't let him have £5 to buy nappies for his baby. The week before the same guy told me I was a heartless bitch for refusing him £5 to get his wife Tampax.

Original poster
Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 19:54

No, I mean it's like economists have said 'the only way to manage behaviour is financial penalties' without realising that this only manages behaviour if you have a lot of money but don't like making sub-optimal financial decisions. But a homeless person who can't afford shelter is hardly going to say 'you know what, £1000 is quite a penalty.. I'm going to have to miss Tuscany this year if I carry on, si I better get a hotel tonight' its kind of mental thinking..

OP posts:
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 19/02/2016 19:57

'Mental thinking' Hmm

Original poster
Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 19:57

But whsmith didn't say 'OK fine, but if you don't buy a newspaper because you can't afford it, we will charge you £100..do you see what I mean?

OP posts:
noisytoys · 19/02/2016 19:58

Everyone can afford a basic standard of living with the minimum benefits and income. Granted it's not a nice lifestyle but it's basic. We live in a culture of extravagance, waste and buy now, pay later, then people get into financial difficulties. We don't live in an age where everything is used and nothing wasted. Then when it comes to paying bills there is nothing left because it has already been spent.

0pheliaBalls · 19/02/2016 19:59

How exactly are people with no money supposed to pay fines though? They can't, so they may well end up in prison. Which ends up costing society far more than the original 'crime', as well as pretty much nixing the future prospects of the 'criminal'. All for what? Because they were sleeping rough?

I'm not saying I have the answers, I'm just saying that it's counterproductive and short-sighted and there surely has to be a better way.

partialderivative · 19/02/2016 20:01

'the only way to manage behaviour is financial penalties' without realising that this only manages behaviour if you have a lot of money but don't like making sub-optimal financial decisions.

Can you explain what that means to a thickie like me?

SirChenjin · 19/02/2016 20:04

You still haven't offered any alternatives - or said what you'd do when the system became overwhelmed by people who'd decided they 'couldn't' pay

HelenaDove · 19/02/2016 20:04

Well if we are talking about ppl taking responsibility for their own actions that should include everyone including corporations and organisations. My neighbour opposite has had two floods in 3 months due to the HA trying to cut corners.

Ruined carpet and belongings and the HA have told her to claim on her contents insurance which will put her premiums up thanks to THEIR choice to cut corners.....and shes not ground floor either so the flat underneath was also affected. It should be coming out of the HAs public liability insurance.

Seems its different rules for different folks.

Original poster
Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 20:07

It means the pain of a financial penalty is only felt by those with more than enough money to pay for it because they will lose luxuries and choices as a result, for someone who can't afford it, it just adds to a pile of impossibilities..you may as well say 'I'm taking away your non existent LA beachhouse or killing the kids you haven't had yet
..its meaningless

OP posts:
AnthonyBlanche · 19/02/2016 20:10

Where in the UK are homeless people being fined £1000 for being homeless Lanark?

expatinscotland · 19/02/2016 20:13

My car tax and insurance costs me hundreds a year. We're low income. So fuck it, let's just now pay it? Hmm For real? If you can't afford insurance and tax then you don't run a fucking car.