Aibu to think that using financial penalties to punish people for not having money should be banned??

[Lanark2]

You know, banks who charge you more money when you don't have enough money, councils who fine people for sleeping rough, dvla fines for people who struggle to pay car tax and council tax fines for people who can't pay their council tax. Its completely mental.. Isn't it?

Thing is, the only example you have given which I object to is fining homeless people.

If you haven't got money in your bank - don't use your account. If you go unexpectedly overdrawn and it is unusual then your bank will refund you (my bank does if you have not been overdrawn for 6 months). Otherwise you need to be looking at cutting outgoings, because you are living beyond your means.

If you can't afford to run a car then don't run a car. Thus no Vehicle licensing required.

If you are genuinely skint then you will be exempt from council tax. If you have some money coming in then you need to prioritise Council Tax.

However - I do think the fines should be means tested to an extent. Because they do punish those who are scraping by more than the rich - for example instead of a £1000 fine, I think it should be 2% of your yearly salary or something...

Yeah - because everyone who isn't officially poor is living a life of luxury and can easily afford fines

In exchange for the £40 bank find, for example, I could post a standard letter to one of their other customers for them...

Michael winner said that bus lanes were great, it only cost £120 a day to use them, and you sometimes don't even get charged.

£60 is three month food for me.

I could post a standard letter to one of their other customers for them

Have you heard of a little thing called Data Protection?

The banks fines I can see. I get charged £8 for a bounced DD. Ok, so maybe the bank incurs costs when the system tries to take the money on an agreed date. £8 is lost, not great.

My husband's bank will let the DD go through, over his agreed overdraft. And then charge him £6 a day until the money is put back in. He likes his bank account and this isn't an issue for us.

But, if we both lost our income, a £7 DD for house insurance which wasn't cancelled in time or was forgotten about would cost £6 a day until we could pay back the £7 into the account plus any charges. I can see that getting nasty quickly for people and I don't think it's a deterrent for having a financial crisis.

DVLA fines are needed. As long as there are buses which are reasonably priced no one needs a car (obvious exceptions being those who need cars due to disabilities etc)

I agree o.p I think a lot of the people on this thread don't know what it is like not to have money. With bills they have to be paid but with bank charges I think it is ridiculous. Getting charged twelve pound for not having the funds to pay something makes no sense to me.unauthorised over charges can get up to £60 it's £12 a day for us when you have no extra money it is a lot to pay back.

It's expensive to be poor.

Been there, done it.

I'm not sure about fines, but I agree that the banks should be much more proactive about identifying people who are having difficulties, rather than just fining them.

When we were skint I always got annoyed at car insurance and home insurance charging me more to pay monthly. I started saving £10 per month into an account ( all I could afford) and after 3 years we managed to pay the car insurance off all in one go! That was a good day.

It is definitely expensive to be poor.

Oh believe me - we know what it's like to be poor, and bank charges are a killer. Otoh, I've worked in a bank and I know exactly the kind of unnecessary over-spending that goes on (and then being on the receiving end of abuse when those people are charged for unauthorised use of overdrafts).

It is a really difficult one - if you don't have the money, you don't have the money, end of. However, there has to be some forms of sanctions because the default for many would be not to pay.

Yabu and have the typical mentality of those who think someone else should be responsible for them.

I agree o.p I think a lot of the people on this thread don't know what it is like not to have money

How condescending can you get?

Do you know the financial history of all posters?

'I agree o.p I think a lot of the people on this thread don't know what it is like not to have money.'

Tosh! Believe me, plenty of us do. But if you cannot afford to run a car then you don't run one! MOT is there to make sure your car has business on the road, not something dangerous that can harm someone else. Ditto insurance. If someone hits me and has no insurance it costs me greatly - we're low income. Fuck yeah I hope they fine the shit out of people who do this, they don't deserve to be on the road.

A bank can either stop you getting the money or charge you to discourage it - you can't have a situation where the bank just lets you have its money regardless, unless you want pay by providing, say cleaning services?
Insurance companies do not charge more monthly, they charge less annually because they have your money upfront (saving them borrowing costs) and you cannot default/stop paying.
The majority of people who do not pay water bills are well off, but the sanction of being cut-off does not exist, so they play the system.

You can get a bank account that does not allow you to go a penny over your overdraft limit. I switched from HSBC to Halifax for this very reason and haven't had a single bank charge in years. They take every pending transaction from your available balance immediately so that you just don't have anything 'available' other than what is actually there. The only thing that might go through is a direct debit but presumably most people can set them up so they only come out on payday.

"If you haven't got money in your bank - don't use your account."

Wow Oakmaiden. I'm trying not to be sarcastic here, so I will just ask you outright - do you actually think it is that simple?

On the day that you used up your last cent, would you contact each and every one of your service providers (assuming you had the means to contact them at all - still have internet and a phone?) and cancel your direct debits? Simply decide to live on fresh air until more money came in? Hope to god that no outgoing cheques cleared on that same day? Come on!

I am talking about bank charges not car charges. For some people a six pound a day charge can be crippling.

Fining the homeless is the ultimate in cruel futility IMO.

If this 'fining the homeless' thing is real, what the f*ck are people thinking? If the homeless had £1000 to spare, they wouldn't be homeless in the first place.

Oh I thought this would be about stuff like electricity keys being more expensive than regular quarterly bills, and pay monthly costing more than a one off payment.

Who is fining the homeless? Is this a new thing? I've not heard of it at all. How would that even work?

bank charges can be wild but if there's problems you face them, contact bank ASAP and try to work them out. I did this for a friend as she was getting into such a hole. They froze her account, moved dd and income to basic account and let her pay x amount off debt in old current account with no interest.

redexpat that's what I meant by my post... its expensive to be poor.

buying utilities before you need them - key type accounts etc.

*Wow Oakmaiden. I'm trying not to be sarcastic here, so I will just ask you outright - do you actually think it is that simple?

On the day that you used up your last cent, would you contact each and every one of your service providers (assuming you had the means to contact them at all - still have internet and a phone?) and cancel your direct debits? Simply decide to live on fresh air until more money came in? Hope to god that no outgoing cheques cleared on that same day? Come on!*

Why would you spend your last cent if you knew you had uncleared cheques and direct debits still to come out?

Did you mean 3 weeks food, OP? Because I sincerely doubt that you only spend £60 on 3 months food. That's about 65p a day.

Carol decker: Insurance companies do charge more to pay monthly. They charge you additional interest to pay by instalments; they don't offer you a discount for paying upfront.