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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think that using financial penalties to punish people for not having money should be banned??

146 replies

Lanark2 · 19/02/2016 19:33

You know, banks who charge you more money when you don't have enough money, councils who fine people for sleeping rough, dvla fines for people who struggle to pay car tax and council tax fines for people who can't pay their council tax. Its completely mental.. Isn't it?

OP posts:
caroldecker · 19/02/2016 23:16

Stepaway you could argue either way, additional to pay monthly or discount to pay annually. They do this because monthly costs them more so want ot encourage annual payments.

NotMeNotYouNotAnyone · 19/02/2016 23:22

ManneryTowers, you spend that last cent because you have run out of electricity or food or bus fare to get to work. Clearly you've never been in that situation of just not enough money coming in and having no choice

ManneryTowers · 19/02/2016 23:26

Um no I haven't. Because I never spent more than I had coming in. And I've been on the bones of my arse.

blindsider · 19/02/2016 23:26

Do you think a public flogging or the stocks would be less unreasonable??

maydancer · 19/02/2016 23:34

For some people a car may be a luxury but I couldn't manage without one. I would not be able to get to a job .

StepAwayFromTheThesaurus · 19/02/2016 23:44

No, you can't argue either way. If you opt to pay by instalments your paperwork will explain what interest is bring charged. The price is the upfront payment; they charge you extra if you need (or want) to pay by installments. There's a credit agreement involved.

It's not a discount for paying up front, any more than paying in cash at M&S offers some kind of discount over sticking it on an M&S credit card to then pay the minimum payment on. It's an interest charge in excess of what the insurance costs.

Peyia · 19/02/2016 23:44

The overdraft fines really piss me off. I hadn't realised once and every time there was a transaction I got charged £25. So let's say I paid for something on my card for £3, it cost me £28. They just like it spiral out of control. My fault for not having enough money in my account but just freeze the damn card. Changed banks after my complaint fell on deaf ears.

StepAwayFromTheThesaurus · 19/02/2016 23:45

And they do it because offering you what are essentially loans paid off over the year allows them to attract more customers. They charge interest because they can.

Katenka · 20/02/2016 06:26

I have never heard of homeless people getting fines. I don't agree with that.

I have heard of persistent beggars getting fined and it's usually because they are scamming people.

I think banks charge too much. But should still charge something. What's the other alternative? Freeze your account?

Car tax, insurance, council tax all needs paying for and you should be fined for not doing this.

bearleftmonkeyright · 20/02/2016 06:45

Yanbu, but I don't think many people will understand what you mean. These situations can snowball. For example, I took my car for MOT yesterday and it needs more work doing than I realised. There is something wrong with the engine. Now I have managed without a car before. Now hears the clincher. I start a new job on Monday. Well I went home and cried. I considered phoning them to tell them I can't start as I am rural and the job is 20 miles away. It's taken me months to find this Job. We are in debt and have a debt management plan in place. I want to work. Me and DP have phoned our parents and they are going to lend us £250 each so we can buy a car that we have seen on auto trader. I am lucky. But otherwise I would be back at square one. Bank charges have crippled us. But, we are getting help and I want to get back on track. The only advice I can give is never have an overdraft

Original poster
Lanark2 · 20/02/2016 07:21

Yes I do mean £60 for three months..2kg of porridge oats, 1kg lentils, 5kg onions, 9 chickens, frozen veg, tinned toms, baked beans, bread, tinned fish.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lanark2 · 20/02/2016 07:49

But the poorer you make poor people, the less likely you are to correct the behaviours that only exist because of poverty, so it's just mental...

OP posts:
lighteningirl · 20/02/2016 08:08

I have been homeless with two small children, we slept on friends floors, not eaten as it was food or pay for electric I have been as poor as you can be still didn't get into unmanageable debt still didn't take the banks money without asking,scam the council tax or drive without insurance. Debt IS a choice admittedly one that can spiral easily but there is a huge amount of help out there. If you take the banks money without permission why shouldn't they charge you? There are rules in place to stop unfair practice and if you are struggling they will freeze an account.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 20/02/2016 08:14

I agree about bank charges. Mine is a fiver a day if you're more than £1 over your agreed overdraft. I can have food in the house, all bills paid, diesel in the car but because I am £1.01 over 6 days before payday they charge me £30. I would much much much rather they just bounced stuff - I could have put back 50p worth of food and not been charged £30. Does that make sense?

I disagree about car payments, though, for the reasons pp have stated. I do think that garages should be regulated more so that they can't scam you by claiming you need work doing that you don't.

pallasathena · 20/02/2016 08:23

In the local magistrate's court recently, a woman was fined 200 pounds for dropping a fag end on the ground outside a shopping centre. In the same court, on the same day, a man was fined 50 pounds for assault.
Go figure!

Cabrinha · 20/02/2016 08:37

On the insurance payments, I used to work doing credit checks for insurance finance.

You would buy your insurance from an insurance company. That's their business: insurance. Their business is not money lending.

You were actually taking out a loan with an entirely different company - one whose business was lending.

So the insurance company got all their money up front. They don't want to be pricing to allow for bad debt, running credit control departments for when people just stop paying mid year, because they lost their job, or stopped driving.

So expecting the insurance company to let you split the payments for free would be like expecting your bank to loan it to you for free.

The reason the money lending companies are in the business, is because there is a demand and they can make money from it.

What really boils my piss is utilities charging more for key meters. Totally unfair and should be banned.

Original poster
Lanark2 · 20/02/2016 08:42

No you are right, we must consider the poor desperate FINANCE INDUSTRY'S and their shareholders' needs above our own. I often bung them a few extra quid from my heating bill so they don't feel too hard done by.

OP posts:
SirChenjin · 20/02/2016 09:01

Lanark - you keep posting soundbites, but you haven't actually addressed any of the questions that posters have put to you. Are you just having a rant - or do you actually have some credible solutions to the questions above?

ManneryTowers · 20/02/2016 09:01

I'm sorry I just can't agree about the bank charges. It is your responsibility to manage you account and know how much is available to spend. If you go over that by 'just' 50p or by £5 you are spending money that isn't yours. You are the adult who signed up for the account and you are the adult who was given a copy of the tcs and cs re charges.

Cabrinha · 20/02/2016 09:06

Don't be childish Lanark.
You want something (someone to loan you money) you pay for it.
Adds £30 to my £300 car insurance - I don't think that's exorbitant, less than £3 a month.

You're deliberately missing the point though. My post isn't a value judgement about insurance finance, it's an explanation that I have found many people don't realise - that you are not paying your insurance company monthly, you are actually servicing a credit agreement.

There are lots of unfair charges on the poor. Insurance finance isn't one of them.

OurBlanche · 20/02/2016 09:11

I think Lanark is referring to the PSPO in Hackney, it bans:

  • Being in possession of an open container of, or consuming alcohol, save in premises falling within section 62 of the 2014 Act within the restricted area
  • Begging or gathering alms within the restricted area
  • Rough-sleeping within the restricted area
  • Loitering in the restricted area as to cause anti-social behaviour and harassment alarm or distress
  • Urinating or defecating in public places within the restricted area
  • Permitting dogs to be off leads as to cause harassment, alarm and distress within the restricted area
  • Misuse of public toilets within the restricted area

Or maybe Chelmsford's version, or Chester etc etc etc.

All came in last year, all say could no sign yet of anyone being fined. All councils say it is aimed at false beggars and those real homeless people who have consistently refused all help. As it is doubtful that all rough sleepers suddenly stopped I'd assume that none of the councils with similar legislation have actually used it... or maybe, like Hackney, they have all removed references to rough sleepers in their regulations.

Oh, and it's £100 really, with a caveat that repeat offenders will get elevated charges. Most people wouldn't disagree with the rest of the list, would they?

AnthonyBlanche · 20/02/2016 09:14

Lanark you started a very similar thread about a week ago where you said that you are very well qualified and have 3 jobs. If you can only afford to spend £60 every 3 months on food you are either still not working full time hours despite working 3 jobs or are spending a lot of money on something other than food.

Your attitude seems to be that you shouldn't have to pay for utilities and banks should just give you some of their money. Effectively you are expecting people who do pay their bills to support you - how selfish!

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me where in the UK people are fined because they are homeless.

SirChenjin · 20/02/2016 09:15

That all seems perfectly reasonable - what am I missing?

Katenka · 20/02/2016 09:16

Ah is the same poster who wants to use 'I don't earn enough' to get out of paying their bills.

Who has three jobs but earns hardly anything?

Makes sense now

AyeAmarok · 20/02/2016 09:35

If you use services and goods, you have to pay for them.

People need to take responsibility for themselves and what they choose to spend their money on, taking into account things that they have already committed to pay for at the end of the month, and budget accordingly with what is left.

It's helpful to try and schedule all bills that are DD to come out on the day you get paid, then you know what you have left and can budget accordingly.