Are my parents unreasonable? And what do I do next?

[deerman]

Sorry a bit of background here.

My mum has never really liked my DW. When they first met long before we married my mum was very nice to her. But as time went on she became less comfortable with DW being around. I asked her about this and my mum says that at first she thought I was only dating my wife to get ahead in my career but now she could see that I loved her she thought I could do better. DW is always pleasant towards my mum. We only see my parents once a year now as they live far away we don't keep in contact only on birthdays and Christmas when I call them.

So my DW had our DD a couple of weeks ago. DD was a bit early and the labour was very traumatic for dw who had to have an emergency c-section in the end. But both did very well and they came home today.

So after the birth I video called my parents to tell them DD had been born and told them her name etc. My mum was upset that I hadn't called earlier when dw was in labour. I explained that there was no time beforehand and she quickly moved the conversation on to when she could come and visit. I said I would tell her when but probably not for a few weeks and they would have to stay in a hotel which I would pay for. My mum was a bit upset and said she felt left out. I apologised but said that I wanted to spend time with DD as a family of 3 and get used to her before any visitors.

So last week the doctors said that if everything was good over the weekend then DW and DD could go home on Monday (today). I texted this news to my dad.

So today we got home and we had just sat down and suddenly there are my parents standing at the door complete with suitcases. DW and I were in shock. I let them in and asked them why they were here. My mum said that they assumed my text was an invitation to come over and stay.I said I didn't have a hotel for them or anything and my mum said it was too late now as they were here and they would have to stay with us if they couldn't find one.

They went and sat in the living room with dw and DD. Dw was holding DD and my mum started stood in front of them and started cooing right in DDs face. I told her to sit down which she did and I went online to look for a hotel for them.

My mum then started referring to DD by her middle name. I reminded her that DDs first name was X. But she then did it again. I told her again that DDs first name is X and she was using DDs middle name. My mum said that this was because she didn't like DDs first name because it was unusual (DDs first name is Welsh as is my wife and DDs middle name is a common name which a member of my family has). My dw told my mum that we liked the name and she explained the meaning behind it. My mum said fine then and sighed.

Then DD started crying so dw asked if my parents could leave while she fed DD. My mum stared muttering about coming all this way and not getting to hold her but they both left. But then as soon as dw said she was done my mum was in the room like a shot and she grabbed DD out of my dws arms and started kissing her and whispering to her she turned her back on all of us and cuddled DD.

I then found them a hotel and told them about it and said I was booking them a taxi. My mum said she was staying longer and started to cry. My dad asked if they could stay just an extra half an hour and they both turned to my dw and asked her again to stay longer. She said yes so I agreed as well and booked the taxi for half an hour later.

A few minutes later DD started crying in my mum's arms. My dw asked if she could have her back and my mum said no I want to hold her more you can have her all to yourself when I leave. I could see that dw was upset so I told my mum to give her DD which she reluctantly did.

DD settled and then my mum was on at dw asking for my dad to have a hold as he hadn't held DD yet. So we gave her to my dad and then my mum took her off him. DD started crying again and my mum started to shush her but used DDs middle name again.

Dw said sorry but DD is called x not by her middle name. My mum said that she was calling DD by her middle name and she couldn't see why we didn't give DD a first name from my family as my DWs family were all dead so DD wouldn't care about them or their culture anyway.

Dw asked for DD back now but my mum said no as she is the only grandparents DD has and DW has to learn to share. I told her to give DD back and I stood up and took her from my mum and gave her back to my wife.

I told my parents that their taxi was coming and they should wait outside. My mum went towards dw to kiss DD, as she did she whispered something which I couldn't hear and I got both my parents out the door and when I returned my wife was in tears. Turns out my mum had told her that she didn't deserve DD but it didn't matter because she would probably kill DD just like she killed her family. (Her family died in a tragic accident which was not my wife's fault at all)

A couple of hour ago my dad called. DW didn't want me to answer but I did anyway. He said that my mum had got carried away because she was upset that she wouldn't get much time with DD before they go home and could we just put up with them for the week and then they will go home and we won't see them for ages. He asked if I could do it for him as he wants to know his granddaughter before they leave and he loves her and us and wants to see her again and a couple more visits before they leave wouldn't be too much to ask as they had travelled a long way and didn't get a chance to take a picture. My mum was crying in the background. I said I would see what happens.

But dw was listening and she was really upset because I wasn't more firm with them.

So now I don't know what to do. My mum was awful but they travelled here and they don't have pictures and my dad didn't even really get to hold her and they will probably turn up again this week and try and see DD again. I'm not sure what to do if they come here again.

LemonRedwood Mon 15-Feb-16 22:14:47

Which country op? Not particularly relevant but my best friend's dh has a mother who behaves in batshit ways that are similar but not quite as awful. Wondering if there is a cultural connection.

Lemon Other then the very obvious response of OMFG to the OP's original post, your question was precisely the next one that popped into my head - and actually I do think it's relevant based on what I have observed.

I have 3D now aged 14 up to 24, so a sum total of some 68 years 'parenting years', and of meeting different sets DC's friends & families, the other school mums etc, and I can honestly say that (whilst have obviously heard a shitload of pretty grim/take the biscuit type MiL tales, as well as those which have made me envious of mates with incredible MiLs), the only 2 unbelievably and just astonishingly awful - I mean really extreme awful - MiL stories and scenarios were both and uniquely from 2MiLs who happened to be Asian.

And there are enough similarities in their, honestly horrific to the point where hard to even begin to imagine, or even to believe TBH, stories (much the same way as a hefty % of posters originally just could not believe this OP to be real) that completely align with what OP has shared here.

In both of the cases I knew (& actually even witnessed some of the 'milder' stuff myself), both of the MiL's believed their precious sons had 'married down'; were rude to the point of callousness to my friends/the 2 DiL's; and then hit new extremes whenever a newborn was on the scene.

These woman were openly told they were no good to their DHs, that they were unfit Mothers; they were undermined by MiLs to DC; and MiLs genuinely believed that they had more rights over baby than the DM themselves did (& the DM's families too BTW). One MiL went as far as to pinch a 6 week old really hard to make them cry so she could then claim baby did not 'want to be with DM' so she could try nd take him away - the mark she made was fierce and was there for weeks. And this was perpetrated upon a child she proclaimed to love FFS?

[FWIW, I do suspect it's a route OP's DM could well likely also have subsequently embarked upon herself given all the insane things already done right from the get go, so you dread to think what 'escalation' would have looked like - hence my other concern here being that if OP had not decided to go NC that there could be some real safe-guarding issues here).

All that I saw & witnessed, and the stuff I didn't see but was told about, was just utterly vile and it too did extend within the family by the MiLs, where the DWs of other brothers of their DHs - who had also married into western or westernised families - received the same treatment. Yet in both of those families, marriages by the DH's DBs to a 'nice Asian girl' did NOT result in the viciousness above - it was so nakedly done that that just exacerbated how very real and very brutal it was.

My next door neighbour, an educated and highly cultured woman who is both a great Mum as well as a Headteacher and VERY happily married, is treated like shit by her MiL and that is - in her own words, so no 'projection' or 'stereotyping' here - things like: 'she looks at Amir and asks him why he couldn't have married a nice 'proper Asian girl' but the absolute kicker here is that this friend IS bloody Asian FFS, yet her MiL still wanted her DS to have a 'nice Asian wife' - even though she IS Asian and she IS a very nice wife!

But what she isn't is the unheard of, staying at home in her rightful place and subservient to either her Husband or to her in-laws. Nice, yes; subservient; no fucking way.

So not only do I 100% believe this story but I can also see 100% how - until now, something THIS dramatic and so far over the line - OP, IE DH here and DS of the MiL in question, would absolutely have been groomed this way and it has taken a bomb like this for him to shake the ingrained grooming by his DM out of his head.

So I do think culture is actually relevant here as - whilst clearly MiL issues manifestly aren't reserved by any one particular culture - there is no question that in, some cultures, the kind of situation and abusiveness/lack of boundaries/plain spite & venom that OP has described and as my friends have endured is more commonly to be found (& is very often in a whole different of fish to the usual MiL gripes you see on here and in a league of it's own).

OP Well done on protecting your family, and many congratulations on the birth of your beatiful DD

Stop excusing the mil by suggesting she has mh problems. Mh problems don't make you a nasty fucker. She's just a nasty bully, who is used to getting her own way.

My mum is similar. Iwould be disbelieved if I posted some stories
It is not great
Agree with your brother
Keep the door open for the future though,, we are glad our kids know their nana and she does love them. the nasty things she says about us do not hurt the kids or our relationship with them
Jealous is a poorly understood emotion
But for now keep them away for the sake of your wife. let her decide on the next meeting ground rules
Sorry this has happened

Deer you're a good man.

I feel so sorry for your Dw. Not surprised she's been crying through the night

Be there for each other - you may find that this actually makes your relationship stronger.

With your wife's agreement I would do the following:
Make it clear that your mother is no longer welcome to visit this week. I am guessing she just wants a pic with the baby in her arms to show off back home in any case
Your father is welcome to return and make a short visit this week.
Provided that a written apology to your DW is received, in advance of a full verbal apology then then are welcome to return in 6 months to visit your family again. This will be their final opportunity to do it right and make things good.

Your wife will be physically stronger and more able to deal with it if things get nasty again in 6 months. For now, your mother has sadly petrol bombed her bridges.

Off line I would be suggesting to your Dad that your mum seeks help.

"Stop excusing the mil by suggesting she has mh problems. Mh problems don't make you a nasty fucker. She's just a nasty bully, who is used to getting her own way."

Not exactly true - some conditions can cause narcissistic behaviour, reduce social inhibitions and establish persistent 'me versus everyone else' attitudes, which can make people medically assholes if left untreated. However, it is extremely difficult to know how much someone's assholery is related to their mental illness, and how much is just them.

As a daughter of a similar mother, I appreciate the OP's predicament slightly. My dad was awesome, but would do anything to reduce conflict, which often ended up facilitating her behaviour. My brother and I do love our mother, but don't often like her very much - but we're quite desensitised and used to her behaviour. Our respective spouses are less understanding, but, quite frankly, still go above and beyond given that they're dealing with somebody who is flat out manipulative, rude and abusive.

However, the OP's mother sounds miles worse than my own, and he needs to put his own family - his wife and child - first. His mother repeatedly acted in an unforgivable way, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near for a good while, and only after that if she apologises and firm boundaries are set.

I agree with a PP. You now need to do something lovely for your wife to replace the awful memory. Is there a female friend or someone you can invite over later for a brief but happy visit? In the meantime keep telling your DW and DD how amazing they are and how much you love them and how you will do everything to protect them from your 'delightful' mother. I also agree your DW needs to be able to talk about this to whoever she wants to.

I really think you need to go NC with your DM for a while. Then set the boundaries before you let her back into your life. I am glad you have your brother to talk to.

This is SO common within asian mixed marriages, it's scary. Especially with asian boys and their mothers (and I am speaking with 1st hand experience).

OP - you have made the first essential steps of setting the boundaries, listen to your brother. You will now be teaching your child the difficult balance that bullying is not acceptable, and that will include what she sees from her own family, and therefore your mum speaking to your wife in the way that she does, is not acceptable.

You will reconcile, the pull of the grandchildren is too much for the grandmother to avoid, and she will continue to do her utmost to get her digs in as and when she can over the years, so you need to have your eyes open to this from the start (and I don't think you are naive enough to know this isn't true), but I have seen it managed successfully over the years with the correct boundaries in place from day 1.

I sympathise with the effect on your father, but this is an opportunity for your dad to grow a set too...the loss of contact with you all due to your mother just may, make him stand up to her more.

For those that do not think that culture is relevant, it is. Thankfully not all of us have parents 100% like this (but have elements of), and the jealousy thing is, in it's most simplistic form, no girl will ever be good enough for their son...especially a foreign one. Ugly I know.

And Mom17, it's tiring hearing an Indian person hide behind her culture as a means that this is all acceptable (my mum has always done that). It is not.

Good luck OP with next few weeks...this is the making of you and these first few weeks are critical for your wife to not left completely scarred by what has already been a traumatic start to parenthood.

Slightly aghast at the generalisations being flung around here re the cultural issue perhaps "explaining" the MIL's behaviour. Even though nobody is saying that culture excuses her, nonetheless how insulting to Indians to suggest that their culture normalises telling a new mother she killed her family and will kill her child. This woman is a mentally ill cunt in any culture.

OP regarding your Dad, if he is willing to say openly and genuinely to your DW that he 100% condemns his wife's behaviour (after all he didn't know what was said in the whisper at the time, though you have since told him) and he understands why you cannot allow her near DW or DD again, you could perhaps consider letting him see DD again to say goodbye. If he sides with your DM then just wash your hands of the pair of them. Your DB sounds great.

Ladystoic I have a Sikh friend she and her DH are lovely. But they live with her ILs, her MIL gets my friend to bathe her. She does everything around the home. When I first found out I thought her MIL was infirm but no, she has a FT job and in her 50s.

I know my friend met her DH by arrangement, they did fall in love. However for some reason one family decided the match wasn't suitable and wanted to break them up. They stuck together, and it's like her MIL is punishing her. I actually don't think my friend's ILs value women as equal to men. Possibly the most you aspire to is to be queen bee MIL over your DILs, like they have to have the respect its mandatory.

My friend and her DH are desperate to move out on their own.

Forgive me if I am generalising too much but I think this is partly cultural just from listening to my friends experiences.

So horrid! I think others have offered the best advice. They need to stay away this visit and return only after a sincere apology and if your wife is ever comfortable with it. From the sounds of it you would likely be better off without them at all.

I feel so sad for your wife having to hear such awful words at her most vulnerable, give her lots of hugs and make sure she knows you're on her side

Your mother is a loon, OP - I feel for you, your DW, your DD and your dad, who is clearly trying to make the peace. Be firm with your mother - your wife is your wife, she respects her as such and treats her well and all will be well, if not then there will be no further contact. Your DD is your DD, and your DW's DD - and as such, she needs to bond with her parents first rather than her grandparents - if your mother can behave herself and conduct herself with decorum, and as a grandmother appropriately, then she will have contact with your DD, but on terms you and your DW are comfortable with.

I am not saying for one moment that all indian parents are like this. But 47 years of experience allows me to say, those that are, can make their children's lives very very uncomfortable, with good and bad outcomes, depending on how it's been dealt with.

I think this demanding of respect and power simply due to your place in the family is a very dangerous concept. Mil holds this view (German). Because she is dh mother she demands "respect" Ie the right to have her way and be super rude to us. We hold the view that you treat every adult with respect, and damn sure expect it in return. Two way, adult relationship. You wouldn't think this was unreasonable but seems so.

Culminated in me having to point this out to fil over the phone. " how do you think that makes US feel fil?". " it's not all about you". He had no answer to this. God I felt great after that.

Why do you even need to ask? You can see and hear for yourself how horrendous this is for your wife and you need to protect her and you daughter. Wrong on so many levels.

Oh OP.

I am not Indian, but from a neighbouring country. As soon as I read what was whispered to DW, I knew this was an asian twisted MIL. yes, the culture info is relevant, but it is not an excuse. What is a relief is that you do see your mother for what she is. What she said to your wife was utterly inexcusable and a horrific thing to say, especially at such a time when your DW has a million other emotions to deal with.

I also understand the pressure on you to be the dutiful son, but am glad that you booked a taxi pronto to get her away from your DW to a hotel. Yes, as mom17 said earlier, this is deemed highly offensive in the asian culture, but let's face it, your mum cannot be allowed to remain around your DW.

OP, no matter who you married, it would have made no difference. Your DM would have been nasty to her. It is sadly a weird minset of some MILs. Nobody good enough for their boy and all that.

Forget cultural norms on this one. She knows it is out of order. keep her at arms length, even if she does apologise.

I think you need to ignore them out at least for the time being.

There's a new baby, your wife had a difficult tim, they both need you.

You don't have time to be bothering with your parents behaviour atm.

I was feeling a bit sorry for your parents at the start of the story. Yes, they shouldn't have just turned up but I was thinking you could perhaps have let them stay around a little and cuddle DD.

But then I read the rest of it - YANBU at all! They sound like a total nightmare.

Culture is not an excuse, but it does offer an explanation for why very different expectations around what happen after birth occurred, my husband is not Asian but comes from a culture in which mothers are very dominant, and this behaviour (and perhaps the personality disorder driving its extreme forms) are very familiar to me- the visiting uninvited, extreme concern with being seen to be important etc.

There is no other way than to reassert your boundaries, you are now the important unit and cannot allow anyone to be treated that way. Be prepared though that they will return to their home country and slag you off to all and sundry and probably say nasty things about your wife, unfortunately the extended family don't see the whole situation or hear the bad things said, and it is easy for your mother to spin the victim of an evil DIL story when you are not there- this may affect wider family relations. Luckily in this situation you have your brother for support.

Good luck, I wouldn't have believed people could act like this, until I was in a similar situation, I thought all mums were nice like my own!

Your mother is evil. Whatever the reasons behind it, your mother is evil.

Your mother wished your newborn baby dead. You cannot have her in your lives.

I wouldn't keep the door open for any future contact. What your mother did, there is no going back from. If I was your wife, I'd be getting a restraining order.

I am also fed up of hearing abuse and disrespect of women being excused as cultural. There is no excuse for being a cunt.

Cultural cuntishness: it does not justify, but it does explain a lot.

Bit racist there Contessa.

Nobody's suggesting culture is an excuse, but it is a partial explanation. People are raised with certain expectations from early childhood so they are completely ingrained as normal. I'm not saying it's right, just saying it happens for a reason.

Please ensure your DW knows for this next week she will not see your MIL. The effect of this in your wife will be hugely long lasting, she can't be living in fear for this next week. Tell her you will always pick her, you will always get your DD for her to hold whenever she wants. Tell her you will always pick her over your parents. Yes its sad you will loose contact with your dad, but that's his choice. She would have already been re-mourning the death of her family not being there for her.
Spoil her. If she has a best friend, get them to come round to help comfort your wife, get them a takeaway/cook her favourite food.

I can't even begin to imagine the effect of what your MIL said will have.

Tell your DW its not her choice to not see your MIL that you will support. Tell her you are making the decision not to see you MIL again as you love her.