re: 4 year old DD and gender identity

[herethereandeverywhere]

Sorry, have posted here for traffic, not sure where else it should be.

[trying to avoid drip feed, sorry if long]

DD2 is 4 next month. She wants to be a boy. If I ask 'Are you are girl or a boy?" she answers "I'm a girl but I want to be a boy". She selected lots of 'boy' toys for Xmas like fancy dress outfits of male characters. All of this I'm comfortable with. I was very 'ant-pink' with DD1 but as soon as she hit about 2.5 and started mixing with other kids it was Disney princesses and pink sparkles all the way. So DD2 was raised in a fairly universal environment of choose what you want.

Summer last year (just after I'd bought several dresses in the sale in time for holidays) she declared she would no longer wear dresses. This has moved on to any item that looks remotely female. I have replaced her princess knickers with pirate underpants, ditto socks. There is no way she'll wear any of DD's hand me down tops with 'girly' motifs on them. when I take her for new shoes she selects the 'boy' style. I have been fine with this and was pleased she was finding her own identity. She'd been shy-er and quieter than DD1 and I saw this as her coming out of her shell, being her own person.

The issue at the moment is her hair. It's currently past shoulder length and for the last week she has been going nuts when I try to tie it back, screaming 'no ponytail'. She says she wants 'boys hair'. Today she literally screamed the place down for 10 minutes and was sobbing, utterly heartbroken. I'd been hoping she just forgot about the hair thing but it's getting worse.

I really don't want to cut her hair off - it would take so long to grow back. Until now her choices have all been instantly removable (clothes/toys) if she moved on from this, but a short hair cut is something else.

So, I suppose it's AIBU about the hair - but more importantly: is this normal? How far do I let it go? has anyone else experienced similar and what did you do/say? I'm not afraid of having a transgender child but it seems wrong to be expressing what she's doing/saying in those terms when she's not yet 4.

Well, we all have an idea how we like our hair, don't we? In fact for women, having their cut hair cut off against their will is a form of psychological torture.

I was a tomboy who loved to wear my hair long (when it wasn't obligatory for all girls, I might add). I remember the times my hair was cut as very traumatic. So your child also cares about how her hair is, just wants a different style from the one you prefer.

When you find all the relatives giving you boring toys at Christmas, because you are girl, it is natural to say you wish you were a boy.

I couldn't believe when my dd was born that she actually preferred those types of toys

I think that as long as what she is asking for (and your DD1 too) is reasonable for any child her age (girl or boy) and for the circumstances, and she is adamant and persistent in asking, then I would allow her to choose. So she's asking for a haircut that is suitable for her age, no problem. If she asks to wear shorts and a vest in freezing weather, then no, because it isn't suitable. Saying no to wearing dress up outfits to the park is your call - if you think it isn't suitable, then saying no is fine. Don't make it about gender identity when it is about expressing her personality in a way that is completely normal.

"I'm also conflicted that DD1 doesn't get to wear her princess party dress every time she demands it (e.g.: for a trip to the park) so why should I treat the sobbing for boys hair differently."

she doesn't want Boys hair, she wants short hair. Calling it boys hair is just evidence of how she has been conditioned by society to believe that only boys have short hair. Lots of women have short hair and it doesn't make them any less female.

When speaking of "gender identity", I think people are also saying not to tell her that boys have short hair and girls have long hair and she should have long hair because she's a girl. The more you associate things she likes with boys or girls, then she'll associate herself with that gender.

The best course is not to associate anything with gender and let her use whatever she wants, as long as it's appropriate in terms of where she is going or what she is doing.

And stop asking her what gender she is.

Short hair isn't 'boys' hair'. It's just hair.

I think you are making too much of this.many 4 yr olds want to be giraffes and dinosaurs!

She doesn't want boys hair she wants short hair. I have had extremely short hair many times a girl and woman and loved it.

I'm also conflicted that DD1 doesn't get to wear her princess party dress every time she demands it (e.g.: for a trip to the park) so why should I treat the sobbing for boys hair differently.

Not boy hair. She wants short hair. Let her have her hair short. I see no logical reason not to. By refusing, you're creating an issue where there doesn't need to be one. It's not the same as wanting to wear a princess dress to the park as there are practical reasons against this - I'm guessing a princess dress is not always suitable for the weather and terrain.

If they really are just clothes and hair and not an expression of gender identity, why should I let her have what she wants?

No, not an expression of gender identity but maybe an expression of personality, interests, likes and dislikes. We all have likes and dislikes. I prefer certain fabrics of clothes because I prefer the way they feel; I prefer certain cut and colours of clothing because I think they look nice; I prefer certain types of clothing because they are practically suited to what I want to do when wearing them.

Appalled by the suggestion made by a previous poster that the op contact an organisation for gender confusion !!!

I had a Big Spat with another therapist about treating children.

I'm generally more 'its normal behaviour, don't label, don't make a big deal, don't obsess', where be was 'ooooh, its xyz syndrome caused by a deep seated animosity towards nanny for washing teddy in the laundry when you were two weeks old...at least 2 years therapy (heh heh).'

I think the most likely thing is that she's trying to carve out a place in the family that helps her feel distinct from her older sister. What's the one thing she could do that would say most strongly to her pink-and-sparkly sister 'I'm not like you'? Well, what's someone who doesn't like pink-and-sparkly? To a 4-year-old, the answer to that is probably 'A boy'.

I think it's absolutely the point that she doesn't want her sister's hand-me-downs. She wants her own identity, so she's 'being' a boy. The 'gender' stuff is neither here nor there.

^
It's the 'I want to be a boy' and above all the real distress at her having anything associated with what she perceives as 'girly' that's the gender issue, not the choice of pirates or other boy characters to act out in role play.^

Personally I think wanting to be a boy if you are a 4yo girl is a totally rational response to the narrowing gender expectations and options for young girls now. Who wouldn't want to be a boy? They get better toys, better role models, loads of cool sports and activities, as opposed to girls, who are supposed to be OK with sitting around twirling their hair amidst an explosion of pink and glitter. My sis and I wore what would now be deemed boy clothes in the 70s and had access to loads of cool activities which would now be deemed boys stuff. I really feel for your daughter. Let her cut off all her damned hair - having a boycut never did me any harm.

OP you have ignored the main question which has been raised by a few posters here: why do you ask your child whether she is a girl or a boy?

For the other poster who came on here also saying that you ask your child whether she is a girl or a boy - why do you do this?

Why do some parents ask their own children 'are you a girl or a boy'? Why, just why? It is an odd question to ask anyone, let alone a child, let alone your own child who is only 4

I want her to be herself and not my constructed ideal.

So get her hair cut and let her get on with being herself! Why make things difficult for yourself?

DD often went walking in the woods in a party dress, fairy wings and wellies. Who cares?

I was a tomboy. My parents just let me get on with it, even though my mother must have wanted to put me in pretty little dresses having spent her time raising my older brothers :) As a result I have never given my gender a second thought.

I really, genuinely don't understand why a little girl shouldn't have short hair

I know the preferred style these days is long, princess tresses. But girls look adorable with short hair.

Cut her hair and make her happy. She might even start a new trend amongst her friends.

Why should your child's preferred clothing or preferred hairstyle cause you to ask your 4 year-old child 'ARE YOU A GIRL OR A BOY'?

There was a thread some time back about people who identify as being not human (so, some life-form other than human), but when my daughter chose to be a donkey in her nativity I didn't get concerned. Come to think of it she always chooses a part which is not human. I will not be asking her 'are you a human being or another form of life?'

There is absolutely nothing wrong with females of any age having short hair

In the 70s, many girls had short hair, it really wasn't a big deal (I've recently been reminded of this with all the 'way back when' photos shared on FB)

I have had short hair for the majority of my life but am definitely female

DD often went walking in the woods in a party dress, fairy wings and wellies

This made me It reminded me of when DS had a phase of wearing wellies all the time no matter the weather and no matter what else he was wearing.

Been through this and at 10 are coming out the other side. I drew the line at boy pants and compromised on boy short style knickers and I didn't want her to have proper short back and sides so she has had a short bob for the least few years. She still doesn't do dresses and skirts and will veer towards minecraft, starwars and football but as puberty approaches she is very clear that she's a girl and doesn't want to be a boy which is a big move from saying that she wants to be a boy which was how she was for years. Interestingly, I never thought that she was trans. She never ever said that she was a boy, just that she would like to be a boy and from everything I have read that's the fundamental difference at that age.

I don't understand why you would ask if she is a boy or girl. Surely you should be explaining it is v likely she is a girl - this is according to her chromosomes - It is a statement of fact which will be evident from her genitals.
Short hair is short hair not boy hair and pink princess dresses are just another Disney import and hardly important in terms of gender identity. Both boys and girls look daft in them anyway.
Am rather surprised at the level of sexism here.
I was a 'tomboy' but it wasn't an issue back in the 80s.

Totally agree Mavis too much labelling. Everyone is unique.

Why are you even asking her if she is a boy or a girl?!?!

I cant believe a person has gone from anti-pink to short hair is boys hair.

Long ago, when they wouldn't let women into university or into medical schools, there were some girls who grew up determined to be doctors (their dreams were 'boys' dreams!) and went into medical school as the only woman in the entire university/school. They hung out with boys all the time, talking with boys about 'boy' topics and behaving as you'd expect a only a boy to behave (reading science books which were considered 'boy' books). Luckily, nobody asked these girls 'are you a girl or a boy'.

I agree short hair is just short hair. In my family it most definitely isn't boys hair - both my 2 brothers have had varying length hair throughout their lives and most of the time it was longer than mine and my sisters. They are very much boy, boys but have definite wavy blond surfer dude long locks .
My son loved a red handbag and wearing high heels when he was 4 but now at 7 wouldn't put them on for love nor money.
I hated pink and refused to wear it until I realised at 20 that it actually suited me.
I think you are getting stressed over nothing, she is a four year old being a four year old, she bound to change her mind a million times over the next 14 years, labelling it just makes it more difficult for you and her.

I don't understand why this is such a big deal at the moment, or at least, it has become a much bigger deal than it ever was.

You have a baby, you can see when it is born if it is a boy or girl (or intersex?). You raise the child you have. You don't assume that a girl is going to be pink and fluffy, or a boy is going to be blue and rough. The child is their own personality. To assume gender confusion instead of assuming the child is their own person is cruel IMO.